James Church stands at the intersection of technology and storytelling, championing the cause of empowering businesses through clear, effective communication. As the pivotal figure behind Robot Mascot, James excels in translating complex ideas into engaging narratives that captivate audiences. His knack for simplifying technology for entrepreneurs and startups ensures that innovative concepts receive the attention and understanding they deserve. James's focus on precision and impact in communication has made him a vital resource in the tech and business landscapes, aiding brands in expressing their vision and connecting with their audiences.
James on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamescchurch/
In this episode, James shares his expert insights on the art of communication within technology and innovation. As a strategist in transforming intricate ideas into approachable stories, James discusses his methods for bridging the gap between creators and their communities. This episode is packed with valuable lessons for anyone aiming to enhance their messaging and forge stronger bonds with their audience.
This conversation uncovers the intricacies of communication strategies, the significance of storytelling in tech, and the essentials for ensuring your intended audience's message is heard and felt. James's perspectives illuminate the critical role of effective communication in achieving success and establishing genuine connections.
Key Highlights:
🔍 06:09 - Supporting Founders In Their Fundraising Journey
🔍 11:04 - Startups: Funding And False Perceptions
🔍 19:36 - Vision Does Not Equal Product
🔍 22:24 - Blockchain Is Not A Vision
🔍 28:10 - Startups Need Business Plans
For individuals eager to command the language of tech and make their ideas resonate, tuning into this session with James Church is invaluable. Join us for a journey through storytelling and innovation, learning how to ensure your concepts strike a chord with your audience.
You can find James's book here - Investable Entrepreneur: How to convince investors your business is the one to back
You can also check out Radhika Dutt's book here - Radical Product Thinking: The New Mindset for Innovating Smarter
Host Bio
Ben is a seasoned expert in product agility coaching, unleashing the potential of people and products. With over a decade of experience, his focus now is product-led growth & agility in organisations of all sizes.
Stay up-to-date with us on our social media📱!
Ben Maynard
Product Agility Podcast
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James Church: And that became our niche and our go-to.
00:00:02
We quite quickly became the UK's leading agency, trusted by
00:00:07
big players in the market Crowdcube, Cedars, Deng Global.
00:00:09
We were winning global awards for what we did.
00:00:11
We really started to get the rewards for taking that kind of
00:00:16
brave decision to niche.
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There's all this other stuff we could do and we were earning
00:00:19
money out of, but we took that brave step to niche, which can
00:00:22
be really difficult for agencies starting out, and we got the
00:00:26
rewards for it and we saw incredible growth as a result
00:00:29
and really defined our space in what at the time was a fairly
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new market.
00:00:34
Ben Maynard: Welcome to the Product Agility podcast.
00:00:36
The missing link between agile and product.
00:00:38
The purpose of this podcast is to share practical tips,
00:00:42
strategies and stories from world-class thought leaders and
00:00:45
practitioners.
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Why, I hear you ask.
00:00:48
Well, I want to increase your knowledge and your motivation to
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experiment so that together we can create ever more successful
00:00:56
products.
00:00:56
My name is Ben Maynard and I'm your host.
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What has driven me for the last decade to bridge the gap
00:01:02
between agility and product is a deep-rooted belief that people
00:01:06
and products evolving together can achieve mutual excellence.
00:01:09
Hello and welcome to the Product Agility podcast.
00:01:13
Today we are joined by James Church, who is author of the
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best-selling book the Investable Entrepreneur.
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Now, james has been on my radar for a while because he is the,
00:01:25
as well as being an author, the co-founder of the Global
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Award-winning Investment Readiness Agency.
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Robotmascot mascot do sounds really interesting and offer is
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a pretty interesting and unique proposition.
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So it's an absolute joy, james, to have you on the podcast.
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Welcome, thank you.
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James Church: Thanks for having me through to be here and yeah,
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well, great intro.
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Thank you.
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I'm glad I sparked some interest.
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Ben Maynard: No, you really did, because you used the word
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sprints in what you do and, being an old scrum person,
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sprint it instantly.
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Then peaked my interest.
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Oh, another application of sprints.
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I said an old scrum person, so I'm not a new scrum person, post
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scrum person maybe, I'm not sure, but it really did find it
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interesting because, being a co-founder myself and working to
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get a product in the market, I know it's incredibly difficult.
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And we do get to those points where you just begin to see the
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enormity of what's ahead of you and you realize that a lot of
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the stories of people that have done really well with particular
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technology products have done well because they've had some
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external support from some mechanism, whatever that might
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have been.
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And when you don't have that external support, you begin to
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realize that there's a lot of money that's potentially needed
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to make this thing a success and the service that you offer
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which I'm talking around but not going into great detail on, I
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think is really fascinating.
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So we're going to be talking a little bit today about your book
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and we're talking a lot, probably, about what Robot
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Maskot do and maybe a little bit about James Church, the man the
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myth.
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James Church: Maybe not quite the myth, but certainly the man.
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Ben Maynard: Yeah, no myths surrounding me.
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You're an open book, so I gave you an introduction.
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Is there anything else about you personally, james, that
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you'd like to share with the audience before we get into the
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topics of the day?
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James Church: Oh wow, to share personally, really personally,
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like my life or my work life.
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What do you want?
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I don't know.
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I'm a father of two, got a beautiful wife, two amazing boys
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.
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That's the personal life.
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The whole reason for what we do at Robot Maskot and writing the
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book and everything we're probably going to talk about
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today is really around this desire to really help founders
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take their ideas to the next level.
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We love incredible ideas and get so frustrated at seeing them
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fail to raise that capital.
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They need to get to the next level, to take that beyond an
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idea or beyond a small business into something quite incredible
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and having impact on multiple levels.
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So, yeah, that's really what drives us is this idea that we'd
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love ideas, we want them to succeed and we want them to have
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the capital they need to be able to do that.
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Ben Maynard: So let's be clear, then, for those of you that are
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listening.
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They're wondering just what this service is.
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Did you offer the opportunity for founders to take their ideas
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and really turn them into something which has a good
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market fit, with the adequate funding along the journey to
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make it a consistent reality?
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And this is more, you're not giving them the money, are you?
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Can you maybe explain to the audience what exactly do you do
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at Robot Maskot?
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James Church: Yeah, so we describe ourselves as an
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investment readiness agency or a pitch agency.
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So we help founders communicate their concept, their business,
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their two investors so they can get the capital they need to
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fund their growth.
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So we work with pre-seed and series A funding, which is your
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early stage funding.
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So all the way through, from concepts to those with a million
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in revenues, looking for a funding to take that next step.
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So if your concept stage it might be looking for a few
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hundred thousand to build your prototype, launch it to market,
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test it on some users, If you're at that other end of the scale,
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you've already there.
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You've got a million in revenues and you're looking to
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scale from one to 10 million, 10 to 100.
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I bet you want that sort of millions of pounds in funding to
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go and tackle new markets, launch new products, scale up
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internationally, whatever it may be.
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So yeah, we're working with founders all the way through
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that journey.
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Ben Maynard: That's something you said we were talking before
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I hit record was that you help founders to go away from just
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doing this thing as a let's say this thing, trying to make their
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idea reality as something to do as well as their job, their
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part-time job, and actually turn this into a profession.
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This is a living for them rather than just being something
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which is on the side.
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James Church: Yeah, so many of our founders, certainly those at
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the earlier stage this is currently their side hustle.
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They've been working on it for months or years, validating that
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this is a goer, it's something that the market wants and needs,
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and now they need to take that leap and they need to start
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building something and take some capital and also time, and they
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need to be able to quit their job and focus on it full-time
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and they perhaps need to bring in a small team around them to
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start developing a very basic version of the product and get
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it out into the market.
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So, yeah, we're often helping founders take that leap through
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the work that we do, which is preparing them for raising
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capital and then helping them reach out to prospective
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investors and build a network of high net worth and angel
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investors in their niche.
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And, yeah, so it's those and it's also founders that have
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been there.
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They've already taken that leap .
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They're doing this full-time.
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Maybe they've been doing it sort of hustling, bootstrapping
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it for the last two to three years and now they're looking
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for that external funding to take that next step.
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So, yeah, a real broad mix of motivations.
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Ben Maynard: I'm sure there's some people who are listening
00:06:43
that can relate to this, and we were saying this isn't for the
00:06:47
person that had a great idea done the pub last night.
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This is for people that are serious about taking a risk.
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Well before we go into the depths of some of this, I'd like
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to do it just to backtrack, because one thing that I do love
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talking about is products, and, of course, you help many
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products get to market with the pitch support that you provide.
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But also the way that Raybott mascot has ended up in its
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current incarnation was the story of productization, was the
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story of discovery and pivoting , and I'd love for you, if it's
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okay, just to share a little bit of the story for how how
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Raybott mascot ended up where it is today.
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James Church: Yeah, so we're coming up for 10 years old,
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depending on whether you count when, when the founder of the
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company, nick, started working as a freelancer under the name
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robot mascot and then I joined him later, or whether you count
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it from when we've officially limited, registered as a limited
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company, depends on how old we are.
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But we're in and around 10 years old and we started life as
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a full service creative brand agency, brand communication
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agency.
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We were doing websites and brochures and TV ads and radio
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campaigns and all kinds of cool projects and over time we we
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realized that we were sort of spreading ourselves too thin a
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little bit.
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We were doing a lot of various different things.
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We were a new business.
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We just said yes to whatever work was coming our way and we
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got.
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We started to identify the startups were.
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We always wanted to work with pioneers, like our original kind
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of brief as a business.
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We wanted to work with creators , with pioneers, with idea
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generators, and we were attracting those sorts of
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clients, naturally through the way that we operated as a
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business.
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We were working with startups and we're helping them build
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their brand or whatever it may be.
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And then they needed funding and they asked us if we could
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help them with their pitch deck and we said, yeah sure, how hard
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can it be as a design and communication job at the end of
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the day?
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And we did that.
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We've sort of muddled through, figured it out for a couple of
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clients, as you do when you start, and a couple of our
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advisors were angel investors.
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They saw the work that we were doing and said, actually there's
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a real need, like you're smashing it.
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If every pitch in our inbox was like what you've been creating
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for your clients here, that would make our lives so much
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easier.
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So I think we've got something really special here, really
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interesting.
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So we went away and researched that more and ultimately
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realized that there was a massive problem with my business
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partner, nick.
00:09:03
He defined as the zombie stare you know founders of pitching
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these ideas to investors and they can blank glazed overlooks
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where no one really understands why it needs to exist, where you
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know what its potential is.
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They're saying all the wrong things in the wrong way and we
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knew we could apply our brand communication expertise to that
00:09:22
and start applying it into that space.
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So we started doing that.
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We launched a sort of a test landing page for that
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incarnation of the business and started pitching, it started
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going to more and more events in the startup ecosystem,
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realizing that, yeah, this was having real, real traction,
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getting real interest from founders and investors alike,
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and that sort of snowballed from there really started
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interviewing investors and founders and refining our
00:09:45
process, realizing there was much more to it than we really
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originally thought.
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And all of that led into the methodology that I talk about in
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the book Investible entrepreneur, and that really is
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the summary of all the learnings from the exercise.
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And in and around the time we launched the book, we fully
00:10:01
pivoted the agency from full service creative agency into
00:10:06
investment readiness agency and that became our niche and our go
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to.
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We quite quickly became the UK's leading agency, trusted by
00:10:14
big players in the market crowdcube seeders, dent, global.
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We were winning global awards for what we did.
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You know, we really started to get the rewards for taking that
00:10:24
kind of brave decision to niche.
00:10:25
There's all this other stuff we could do and we were earning
00:10:28
money out of, but we took that brave step to niche, which can
00:10:31
be really difficult for us sort of agencies starting out and we
00:10:35
got the rewards for it and we saw incredible growth as a
00:10:37
result and really defined defined our space in what, at
00:10:40
the time, was a fairly new market.
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Ben Maynard: You make it all sound so easy.
00:10:46
James Church: Well, yeah, that's 10 years condensed into a
00:10:49
minute or so there, but yeah.
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Ben Maynard: There must have been something that was
00:10:52
difficult during those times.
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James Church: Yeah, there was loads of lots of difficult
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moments.
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One was deciding where if we were going to niche and where
00:11:01
that was a big decision, building a reputation, getting
00:11:04
leads and I think the biggest challenge that we're always
00:11:07
faced by people in the industry is surely startups have no money
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?
00:11:12
How can they pay for your services?
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That has that sort of a bit of a falsity.
00:11:17
But because when you look at any successful business, that is
00:11:20
true.
00:11:20
There's plenty of people out there with ideas with no capital
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.
00:11:23
We're there to help them find the capital, but you do need a
00:11:26
bit of your own capital or friends with family capital to
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to invest.
00:11:30
So all of our startups have got to that stage where we're very
00:11:33
clear they're people that are able to self fund some of this
00:11:36
development themselves, have already invested a certain
00:11:39
amount themselves, or they've got friends and family
00:11:41
investment that they're using to fund their growth and we're
00:11:43
part of that wider picture of various things they need to do
00:11:47
to get their business off the ground.
00:11:49
But part of kind of our strategy was figuring out how do we
00:11:52
align with our own vision.
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Our ethos was always to be the friends and allies of founders,
00:11:57
be their support, be their guide .
00:11:58
How do we align to that, while also understanding that there is
00:12:04
a small section of the market that would pay for a service
00:12:08
like we offer and that we're going to be able to make money
00:12:10
out of.
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And that's where kind of things like the book and stuff really
00:12:14
started to form and take shape, because we could offer that as a
00:12:18
low cost or even free kind of here's.
00:12:22
Here's how you do it.
00:12:24
We're going to tell you everything we know and we're
00:12:28
here to support and guide you first and foremost.
00:12:30
Now, if you then want to bring in experts to help you execute
00:12:32
on that, then we're here, but there's no expectation that
00:12:35
you're going to be in the position to do that.
00:12:38
There's free workshop I deliver every week.
00:12:40
There's the book.
00:12:41
There's an online scorecard and assessment.
00:12:43
There's downloads and resources .
00:12:45
We've got enough stuff out there that, if you wanted to
00:12:47
commit time and effort to it, you can do it yourself.
00:12:49
And then our service is for those that want to access their
00:12:53
expertise and leverage their time and do those things.
00:12:56
Figuring that out was probably the biggest challenge of how do
00:12:59
we square that circle, how do we get that right and stick true
00:13:03
to our ethos and our vision and what we want robot mascot to
00:13:07
stand for, while also providing a premium and expert service
00:13:11
where we don't cut corners, we don't bring in juniors and cut
00:13:14
the price.
00:13:15
We work with real experts so we can add value.
00:13:18
That's probably the biggest challenge.
00:13:23
Ben Maynard: You've mentioned vision at least three times,
00:13:27
which I really like.
00:13:28
It's no big secret that I'm a big fan of having a clear vision
00:13:34
for what you're trying to achieve.
00:13:35
Is it fair to say that vision is what helped you achieve the
00:13:40
growth that you've had?
00:13:42
James Church: Yeah, I think so.
00:13:43
I mean, I guess you've got to remember me and my business
00:13:47
partner from a brand and marketing background.
00:13:48
So my business partner, nick, the original founder, he's from
00:13:52
top ten agencies, worked on ad campaigns for likes at Jaguar
00:13:56
and Barclays and Tesco and these big brands.
00:14:00
So he comes from a world of brand and vision and messaging
00:14:04
and, equally, I come from a brand and marketing background.
00:14:06
That's how we met.
00:14:07
You know, internally Talk about brand instead of business.
00:14:11
You know we use the word brand Rather than business.
00:14:14
I think that's quite unique to our background is that we use
00:14:16
those terms into change, a blend , and we live and breathe the
00:14:19
brand.
00:14:19
It's less about the business and the product it's.
00:14:22
You know, we very much Operate around a vision and around a
00:14:26
brand as much as we do anything else.
00:14:29
Ben Maynard: So I guess for you the vision aspect of it Just
00:14:32
fell out of how you wanted to work.
00:14:35
James Church: I think so.
00:14:35
I think a lot of businesses probably start with a product
00:14:38
and start with a Our problem that needs solving and the
00:14:43
status quo they want to change perhaps, but they very much a
00:14:45
lot of people a product led or they focus on the business
00:14:49
mechanics, I suppose, whereas I Guess, naturally, me and my
00:14:55
founder are more vision led because of our background.
00:14:58
So it was all about ethos and vision and values.
00:15:01
And what are we trying to achieve?
00:15:02
How are we challenging that?
00:15:03
That status quo from a broader brand perspective and that, that
00:15:07
, I suppose, gave us the ability to look at these different
00:15:10
opportunities and kind of pivot from full service agency into
00:15:14
this niche, because it was less about Product and more about how
00:15:17
can we live up to the original vision of enabling ideas and
00:15:21
enabling how can we best serve entrepreneurs and founders To
00:15:26
make their ideas a reality.
00:15:28
And that could have been done in a number of different ways.
00:15:31
Ben Maynard: It just so happened that through our research and
00:15:33
through our different Various developments and pivots, it's
00:15:36
ended up here, but it could have quite easily ended up in brand
00:15:40
or in marketing or in in a number of different services so
00:15:44
you and your co-founder are Visionaries, and I would say
00:15:49
about us a statement rather than the question, because I don't
00:15:51
think you can have a compelling vision that achieves the types
00:15:53
of things that you've achieved unless you have that ability.
00:15:58
I don't think everyone has that muscle to come up with a clear
00:16:01
and compelling vision that they really believe in, and I'm not
00:16:04
saying that means they won't be successful.
00:16:05
They could well be, but I think that having a clear purpose and
00:16:08
knowing who you are doing it, for being able to empathize with
00:16:11
them, it helps drive us forward .
00:16:13
And, like you say, if you get that niche right, you do the
00:16:16
research.
00:16:16
But there's always a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
00:16:19
But in in your support then, of startups, companies,
00:16:23
organizations that are going for funding, do you see any
00:16:27
patterns around If I have a vision or not, and how easy or
00:16:31
hard it is to get them to a point where they can be
00:16:34
Successful?
00:16:35
I say successful in so much that they achieve the funding
00:16:38
that they require or is there no correlation for what you see in
00:16:41
between there their vision and then their success and getting
00:16:45
the funding they need?
00:16:47
James Church: nothing.
00:16:47
One of the key things I talk about in in In the book I just
00:16:51
describe it as being a highly resourceful entrepreneur, and
00:16:54
that really is this connection with the idea of being able to
00:16:56
pitch a vision and roll people into your vision.
00:16:59
So investors are looking for Defined as a highly resourceful
00:17:04
entrepreneur, and these are entrepreneurs that can enroll
00:17:06
people into their vision.
00:17:07
They can Not only attract investors and enroll investors
00:17:11
into their vision and have them want to fund their project, but
00:17:14
they can also attract top talent to join their team and maybe
00:17:17
that talent is going to do it below market rate Salary in
00:17:19
return for share options because they believe in this vision.
00:17:22
So much they can acquire to get on board the best advisors.
00:17:25
They can negotiate real strategic partnerships so that
00:17:29
they can leverage to get their market, their product to market
00:17:31
very quickly, access an audience , a ready-made audience, for
00:17:35
example, they you know all of these things happen to a founder
00:17:38
that can pitch their vision and can then enroll people into
00:17:41
their vision.
00:17:42
And you know, entrepreneurship in my mind is a journey of a
00:17:44
sort of thousand pitches.
00:17:45
It's constantly.
00:17:46
You're constantly pitching, whether it's for funding or for
00:17:50
someone to join your team or to get a partnership deal or to
00:17:53
exit your business at the very end.
00:17:55
It's a constant series of pitches, and one of the key
00:17:58
things we Want to be able to do with our clients and it's easier
00:18:02
with some than others, I'm not gonna lie, but is extract away
00:18:06
from yes, this is the product and these are the functional
00:18:08
benefits and features and things , but what's the bigger vision?
00:18:12
How are you?
00:18:12
What's the thing that we can all get excited by, whether we
00:18:15
understand the technology or the , the product itself?
00:18:18
What can we all, what can we all get excited by, whether it's
00:18:21
an investor or a potential quira or whether it's a New team
00:18:25
member, what is it that we can all get excited by?
00:18:28
And that's a really key.
00:18:29
How do we articulate that and how do we articulate the value
00:18:32
proposition that sits alongside it?
00:18:34
So, yeah, that's a really key part of our process is defining
00:18:37
that pitch, and that starts with Trying to inspire through a
00:18:40
vision and a value proposition.
00:18:43
Ben Maynard: So last question on vision, and then I promise
00:18:45
we'll move on, because I think it's gonna be useful advice to
00:18:48
people.
00:18:48
What is it in your mind that constitutes as a well-crafted
00:18:53
vision, but how do you create that excitement and that desire
00:18:58
To follow?
00:18:59
James Church: Yeah.
00:18:59
So it has to be something that's beyond making money.
00:19:02
It has to be a vision.
00:19:03
Beyond making money.
00:19:03
It has to talk to, to an emotion.
00:19:07
It can't be.
00:19:08
No, really poor vision would be To be the market leader in X.
00:19:13
That's a strategic vision.
00:19:15
That's a strategic aim goal.
00:19:17
It's not really a vision.
00:19:18
Brands like dove do it really well.
00:19:20
I don't know exactly, but it's.
00:19:21
The essence of it is to change the way women feel about their
00:19:24
body.
00:19:24
Everyone's beautiful, whatever they look like.
00:19:26
You know, that's something we can all get behind and we can
00:19:29
all agree with and we can all aspire to do.
00:19:30
Now, the way dove execute, that is some really great soaps and
00:19:33
products and and that kind of thing.
00:19:35
But it transcends into everything that they do the way
00:19:38
they position the product, the products they build and develop
00:19:41
and all of those things.
00:19:42
So for me it's yeah, it's got to transcend kind of market
00:19:45
growth targets and Product, and you should probably never
00:19:49
mention your product in a vision .
00:19:51
You know If you're mentioning your product in a vision, you're
00:19:53
probably doing it wrong.
00:19:53
So, yeah, it's just got to be something that everyone can
00:19:56
emotionally attach to and say I want a world in which that is
00:19:59
the case, doesn't have a great and your product doesn't have to
00:20:03
solve your vision fully either.
00:20:05
The vision is much bigger.
00:20:06
You want to see a world where this happens.
00:20:09
We want to see a world in which a great ideas and innovations
00:20:12
flourish.
00:20:13
Right, that's the robot mascot one.
00:20:14
We do that in one way, helping them access capital to make that
00:20:19
happen.
00:20:19
We don't have to then solve that whole vision.
00:20:22
We don't have to have a suite of services that ensure every
00:20:25
idea and innovation flourishes in all aspects of business, but
00:20:29
that's the vision that the Grounds everything that we do.
00:20:33
Our product is a tiny part of that becoming a but it also.
00:20:38
If we were to look at let's say we look at this in 10 years
00:20:40
time in robot mascots now looking to make some
00:20:43
acquisitions To grow our business, that would be a
00:20:47
leading statement as to what sort of businesses are we're
00:20:49
going to acquire from that.
00:20:50
We can move into any product or service or acquire any type of
00:20:53
business we like, as long as those businesses align with that
00:20:57
vision of Having this business as part of the robot mascot
00:21:01
portfolio.
00:21:01
Would that Enable great ideas and innovations to flourish?
00:21:05
And if the answer is yes, then that's a perfectly strategic
00:21:10
Acquisition for robot mascot.
00:21:12
Ben Maynard: I think you're really talking well to the power
00:21:14
of a vision.
00:21:14
I love what you said when you said a good vision perhaps
00:21:17
doesn't even mention the product .
00:21:18
I'm sorry, great advice.
00:21:21
James Church: I think, is when you're a founder of a startup or
00:21:24
any business.
00:21:24
There's some big businesses with really terrible brand
00:21:27
visions and values, often because they're co-created by
00:21:31
senior management.
00:21:31
They often say, in an agency land, a camel is a horse
00:21:36
designed by committee.
00:21:37
Someone's got to be brave enough to just go.
00:21:39
That's it and that's what we're sticking with.
00:21:41
But, yes, it's very easy to go back to your product because
00:21:45
that's all you know, that's all you care about right now, as a
00:21:47
startup is getting this product off the ground.
00:21:49
It also means that when it comes to pivoting, if you've built
00:21:52
your whole concept, your whole business around a particular set
00:21:57
of product features, it's then very difficult for you to accept
00:22:00
that perhaps that isn't quite what the market wants and needs
00:22:03
and I need to change and pivot what I'm offering, or as if it
00:22:07
starts from a broader vision of we want to change the world in
00:22:10
this way, and the way we think we're going to do that right now
00:22:13
is these product features.
00:22:14
It allows you much more easily to feel comfortable with
00:22:18
pivoting and changing and learning from what the market is
00:22:21
saying, without having those blinkers on and going.
00:22:23
But my idea is blockchain, because my vision is that we're
00:22:26
going to build a blockchain company that does X and says no
00:22:30
if that's not the right technology, if that's not
00:22:33
delivering the ultimate vision, then don't be blinkered on the
00:22:36
fact that you've promised everyone a blockchain technology
00:22:38
, whereas if that's baked into your vision and your value
00:22:40
proposition the technology that features the benefits then
00:22:44
you're backing yourself into a corner and not allowing you to
00:22:47
create something that genuinely is meaningful to the market and
00:22:51
will actually solve a problem.
00:22:54
Ben Maynard: It reminds me of a post I did on LinkedIn ages ago
00:22:58
and actually maybe quite recently as well.
00:22:59
I think I reposted it, but the time that I spent internally in
00:23:03
organizations trying to help people come up with a vision for
00:23:07
what it is they wanted just never worked.
00:23:09
It was a bunch of senior managers who had an idea for a
00:23:13
great solution but had never done the research to see whether
00:23:17
or not the users in the organization these were internal
00:23:19
things.
00:23:20
This wasn't externally facing whether the users internally of
00:23:23
an organization actually had a problem to solve by what they
00:23:25
were producing.
00:23:26
And many of these things never really were the success that
00:23:31
people believed they would be.
00:23:32
Many of them never even got off the ground because actually,
00:23:35
when it came to the crunch, they couldn't make a business case
00:23:38
for it, because there wasn't any reason to produce this solution
00:23:41
, because it was always a solution trying to find a
00:23:43
problem, and I think that the stuff on vision is just awesome.
00:23:47
Have you read the book Radical Product Thinking?
00:23:50
I haven't, no, mate, check it out.
00:23:53
Awesome book and really the way you're talking.
00:23:57
So similar and Radical Product Thinking is going to be coming
00:23:59
over in September.
00:24:00
I think we're going to be running a Radical Product
00:24:02
Thinking workshop together in London actually.
00:24:06
So yeah, read the book.
00:24:08
It's a fantastic book.
00:24:09
James Church: I think you will have to do.
00:24:09
It Sounds good.
00:24:10
Ben Maynard: Awesome.
00:24:10
So let's go back and let's think.
00:24:14
So we've covered a lot on vision because I think that's
00:24:17
relevant to the people listening .
00:24:18
That's also something that I just care passionately about,
00:24:21
and you spoke about it so well about how to be compelling.
00:24:24
Maybe doesn't mention the product, talks about the
00:24:25
difference you're going to make in the world, needs to contain
00:24:27
emotion, top advice.
00:24:29
So if we then think about the process that you help
00:24:34
entrepreneurs aspiring entrepreneurs go through with
00:24:38
RobotMasker, what exactly, then, is the process that people will
00:24:42
go through?
00:24:43
when they engage with you.
00:24:45
James Church: Yeah.
00:24:45
So all of this talk of vision it sounds idyllic but it takes a
00:24:49
long while to one get there and get that language, because
00:24:54
you're trying to boil everything that's going around in your
00:24:57
head down to maybe one or two sentences or a couple of slides
00:25:00
in a pitch deck.
00:25:01
So it's really difficult to articulate that off the bat.
00:25:04
So we found that the process we've created the methodology
00:25:09
that I talk about in the book is really takes a massive step
00:25:14
back and just starts with the business plan.
00:25:18
What is the business?
00:25:19
What does it do?
00:25:20
Why does it exist?
00:25:21
What problems is it solving?
00:25:22
What opportunities are there in the market?
00:25:24
How are we going to do it?
00:25:26
What are the products?
00:25:26
What's the current kind of status of the product?
00:25:30
What features, what benefits will it have now and in the
00:25:32
future?
00:25:33
What's the development time?
00:25:34
I get all of that down, get it out of your head so it can't
00:25:38
encumbe future development.
00:25:40
Get it all down there, get it all articulated as a solid
00:25:42
business plan.
00:25:43
And that does two things.
00:25:45
The first is it's really great when it comes to raising
00:25:48
investment, as in your due diligence pack, and being able
00:25:51
to show this is all the detail behind the pitch, the detail
00:25:54
behind the financial forecast, all the assumptions, everything
00:25:57
that we talk about is backed up by considerable thinking and
00:26:02
research and strategy in this document.
00:26:04
So it gives you that credibility behind the things
00:26:08
that you're going to be presenting to the investor.
00:26:10
The second thing it does is it gives founders a better ability
00:26:13
to articulate those things like the business strategy and the
00:26:16
product and the feature set and all of those things to an
00:26:19
investor, because they've considered how it all links
00:26:22
together and how they're going to communicate in written form
00:26:24
through a business plan.
00:26:25
So it makes their own conversations with investors
00:26:28
after the pitch and the Q&A more succinct and more articulate
00:26:31
because they've gone through that process.
00:26:33
And the final thing is it gives founder confidence when it
00:26:36
comes to their pitch To do a really top-level vision and
00:26:41
value proposition without feeling the need to list
00:26:45
everything, absolutely everything, in their pitch,
00:26:48
which makes the pitch more compelling and engaging and
00:26:51
people can be inspired by what you're presenting because the
00:26:55
founder feels confident it's okay to just say this is what we
00:26:58
do in one sentence Without over explaining it, because I know
00:27:01
I've got all the detail Ready to explain to an investor if I
00:27:05
need to.
00:27:05
So it's almost a psychological process of getting to that
00:27:09
vision, that value proposition, that clear, an articulate
00:27:11
product pitch.
00:27:12
The whole process is designed sort of twofold one.
00:27:15
It's a really great process for getting to that really clear,
00:27:19
compelling and articulate communication from a practical
00:27:22
sense.
00:27:22
But also the way that we've designed it is Is that the
00:27:27
assets produced along the journey, the outcomes along the
00:27:30
journey of a business plan and then a financial model and then
00:27:33
a set pitch content and then a pitch design Going through that
00:27:37
process in that order creates incredible assets that the you
00:27:42
can leverage in front of investors and in conversations
00:27:44
with them, that give you credibility and Everything you
00:27:48
need to go and convince an investor that your business is
00:27:50
the ones back.
00:27:51
So it's yes, it's deep dive into everything business and
00:27:55
then unpacking that and going.
00:27:56
How do we say less each time, every every step, the journey,
00:27:59
how do we say less until we get to this clear and articulate
00:28:03
communication?
00:28:05
Ben Maynard: of the business I Think I've probably Puts a lot
00:28:08
of people off.
00:28:09
I think there is this hazy idea that in order to get a product
00:28:13
to market, it's just so easy nowadays and you can just go
00:28:17
ahead and get it out there.
00:28:18
But actually there is a lot of the work that needs to be done
00:28:20
and I think the business plan element of it sounds I don't
00:28:24
know, maybe just I'm of a certain age, but it sounds like
00:28:27
the type of thing you were taught to do in GCSE business
00:28:30
studies, so you know a high school effectively of being
00:28:33
taught how to come out the business plan.
00:28:34
But what you're saying there, that's of critical importance if
00:28:37
you're not going to end up in the situation Much like on the
00:28:40
apprentice which I'm assuming you've seen everything every now
00:28:42
and again.
00:28:43
When they get to the interview stage and they get through this
00:28:45
whole rigmarole, it's down to the last four or five people and
00:28:48
their business plans get interrogated and they just
00:28:50
crumble because there is nothing there.
00:28:54
James Church: It's exactly the point.
00:28:55
When we first pivoted into this space, we only did pitches.
00:28:58
Yeah, you're branding communication.
00:29:01
It was come to us with your idea, tell us about it, we'll do
00:29:03
a workshop and then we'll turn it into a compelling pitch and
00:29:05
that was great.
00:29:06
And our clients were ten times more likely to raise investment
00:29:09
than the industry average is a result of a really compelling
00:29:12
pitch.
00:29:12
That that got them through the door with investors and that was
00:29:15
great.
00:29:15
But we felt we could do much better than that.
00:29:18
I'm sure there's more to be done , and one of the big
00:29:20
frustrations from us was when we were interrogating the client
00:29:23
in the workshops.
00:29:24
They didn't seem to be a lot of substance around go-to-market
00:29:28
strategy or how they were going to.
00:29:30
You know, the validation behind the idea or whatever it may be.
00:29:33
And we got there must be.
00:29:35
Investors must be feeling this pain too, and it became very
00:29:39
clear through our continued kind of research with investors that
00:29:43
the pitch opens the door is the key to opening the safe, if you
00:29:47
like, but it's not the tool that allows you to walk through
00:29:49
the door and fill your bag up with gold the lays behind the
00:29:53
door.
00:29:53
You need different, a different set of tools to do that.
00:29:55
So the pitch is very much the key to opening that.
00:29:58
That safe.
00:29:58
It's not the tool that gives you access to the capital.
00:30:01
So we were like, well, what do they need?
00:30:02
What does a founder then need?
00:30:04
Once they've got through the door, they're going through that
00:30:06
due diligence, they're getting the Q&A there.
00:30:08
You know he's talked about the apprentice.
00:30:11
The dragon's den is another great one.
00:30:12
You give it, they give a great three minute pitch and then, as
00:30:16
soon as the dragon starts in questions, they're crumbles.
00:30:18
They got nothing behind, no substance for the investors to
00:30:22
invest into.
00:30:23
So that was the next problem that needs solving.
00:30:25
We're opening those doors.
00:30:26
We've got the key that's opening all these doors.
00:30:30
How do we make sure that when they walk through that door,
00:30:32
they've got the resources they need to be able to hold
00:30:35
themselves up to investor scrutiny, appear to be credible
00:30:38
and all those things.
00:30:39
And that's where it was very clear that they needed a way to
00:30:43
start thinking and articulating the finer details of the
00:30:46
business strategy and a way to articulate the numbers in a way
00:30:50
that made sense to investors.
00:30:51
Not sense to have founders, because founders love to focus
00:30:54
on opportunities and possibilities and ideas, whereas
00:30:58
investors want to talk about underlying assets and risk and
00:31:02
cash flow and all of those sorts of things.
00:31:05
So how do we train founders that, again going through a
00:31:09
process, they are leveled up as a founder, they learn a lot, so
00:31:14
they can hold their own in these one-to-one kind of Q&A
00:31:18
Underscruciating from investors, but also have the documentation
00:31:21
to back them up.
00:31:22
They have a get out of jail free card as well.
00:31:24
If they can't quite remember the answer, they can always refer
00:31:27
the investor onto the business plan with the detail.
00:31:29
How do we give them useful tools that one level them up as
00:31:32
a founder and two, provide useful Outcomes, useful assets
00:31:37
that they can use in the process ?
00:31:39
And that's where we started the business planning and the
00:31:41
financial projections as a service.
00:31:43
And then the ultimate result of combining those three steps of
00:31:46
business plan financials, pitch materials, was that where our
00:31:50
pitch assets were getting clients 10 times more likely to
00:31:53
raise investment as a whole set, our clients are now 40 times
00:31:57
more likely to raise investment, so massive increase in the
00:32:00
founders ability to raise investment because they
00:32:02
themselves are leveled up.
00:32:03
They haven't just got this great story in this compelling
00:32:05
vision.
00:32:05
They've now got a really credible strategy that backs
00:32:09
that up and, as a result, they're raising more money more
00:32:13
often.
00:32:14
Ben Maynard: It's sounding Like a panacea, almost, you know,
00:32:18
like it's almost too good to be true.
00:32:19
I'm not saying it is, but it does.
00:32:22
It 40 times more likely is a phenomenal statistic and it's
00:32:26
true.
00:32:26
Yeah, you're not gonna say if it isn't, I'm just wondering
00:32:30
because it's been so phenomenally successful.
00:32:31
Have you found you've now got competition in the market?
00:32:35
Are people With similar products and trying to encroach,
00:32:39
and I suppose that how have you , how have you found you needed
00:32:42
to evolve to stay relevant?
00:32:44
James Church: Hmm, yeah, I mean I think we've always had
00:32:46
competition in the form of individual consultants, and some
00:32:51
ex-investors at the X investment analysts that sort of
00:32:54
now want to start coaching and mentoring founders.
00:32:57
So that's always been the case.
00:32:58
But we've always positioned ourselves as the premium.
00:33:01
Where you bring in a team of individuals, we've got business
00:33:04
strategists, financial strategists, copywriters,
00:33:06
designers Everyone's expert their own piece of the puzzle
00:33:09
rather than one Consultant.
00:33:11
But we have diversified.
00:33:12
We've got our core done for you services, but we have launched
00:33:16
more mentoring type services where we guide Founders through
00:33:22
more of a do-it-yourself with our guidance and support, so
00:33:25
that we can case it for that, whether they want to, they've
00:33:30
got the time and they want to do it themselves.
00:33:32
But it's just been, you know, for us it's been a case of
00:33:37
Always maintaining standards and making sure we're seen as the
00:33:39
market leader, winning global awards, partnering with great
00:33:42
people, doing all some things.
00:33:46
It just snowballs as you're the the market leader, and so far
00:33:50
that's worked out well for us.
00:33:53
Ben Maynard: Nice.
00:33:54
I want to go on the website and refresh my memory of what it is
00:33:57
that you offer, because it's been a but a few weeks since
00:34:00
I've been on it.
00:34:01
So after we finish, I'm definitely going to be Having a
00:34:04
little look around, because I do find it a really fascinating
00:34:06
proposition and I think it could be so useful, because I think
00:34:08
of where me and my co-founder right now.
00:34:10
There's lots of work that needs to be done and I just wonder
00:34:18
how much we would gain from going through the process.
00:34:22
My guess is probably quite a lot.
00:34:24
If I'm honest with you, I think it's really hard as a founder
00:34:27
to not just focus on the things you're very comfortable with and
00:34:31
strive to get something over the line and get something done
00:34:34
when actually there is other stuff which, in your gut, no
00:34:36
needs to happen, but you just haven't made the time or got the
00:34:40
skills or confined the people to support you on that journey.
00:34:43
James Church: So I think that's probably one of the biggest
00:34:46
value-ats is the development of the founder or the founding team
00:34:49
.
00:34:49
That the being able, an opportunity to pull yourself out
00:34:52
of the trenches of the day to day and look at it more
00:34:54
strategically, with sort of a bird's eye view, and go this is
00:34:57
the longer term, the short, medium and longer term plan.
00:35:00
This is where we're heading, all having agreement and
00:35:02
alignment on what that is and asking you to think about things
00:35:06
you're not so comfortable with.
00:35:07
So we need to cover lots of aspects of business development
00:35:11
and some people are great at sales and marketing.
00:35:12
Some people aren't.
00:35:13
Some people really have a clear understanding of product
00:35:15
development, some people aren't.
00:35:17
It's like how do we support you to have a more rounded view of
00:35:21
the business and not just focus on the thing that you're really
00:35:23
good at?
00:35:24
And I think one founder probably summed it up really well early
00:35:26
stage founder, but had had incredible success with their
00:35:29
business from their kitchen table, now looking to take the
00:35:32
next step.
00:35:33
And they said I started the process as someone with an idea
00:35:37
and I left it feeling like a proper entrepreneur.
00:35:40
They felt like they could be asked any question about their
00:35:42
business and they would have.
00:35:43
May not be a response that people agree with.
00:35:46
They might want to build it in a different way, but at least
00:35:47
they had a response and they knew what they were planning on
00:35:50
doing, because no investor's going to agree with your plans
00:35:53
100% and they'll deliberately challenge you to see what you're
00:35:59
made of, because most founders will see themselves as inferior
00:36:03
to the investor.
00:36:04
So the investor will ask why are you doing that?
00:36:07
Why is your growth rate as it is?
00:36:09
And it'll be like oh sorry, should it be lower, I'll reduce
00:36:11
that, I'll get it back.
00:36:12
Or are they there saying well, I appreciate it, it's a pretty
00:36:16
punchy growth rate, but we believe that to be possible
00:36:19
because of X, y and Z, and they're the founders they want
00:36:23
to invest into, not necessarily the ones who go and go?
00:36:25
Oh, I'm ever so sorry.
00:36:26
Let me change that and get back to you.
00:36:28
Ben Maynard: It's really funny you say that because, it took me
00:36:31
back to my days in corporate life, when the people succeeded
00:36:34
in order to succeed, if you were going to be pitching something
00:36:37
or going for something, then you had to know your stuff and
00:36:41
stick to it.
00:36:42
Don't waver, don't be all apologetic, and you need to show
00:36:45
that you're worthy of in the corporate life, worthy of that
00:36:49
promotion, worthy of being that person's peer, which meant
00:36:52
there's no challenge and it says what you're saying is.
00:36:53
You need to prove you're worthy of their money, because you're
00:36:55
not going to roll over when someone comes along and says, oh
00:36:58
well, why are you doing that?
00:36:59
And I go oh yeah, I don't know why I'm doing that.
00:37:01
Maybe I won't do that, maybe I'll do something else.
00:37:04
James Church: I don't know what you're talking about.
00:37:04
What you say there is it rings true with what the landscape of
00:37:09
the European and UK landscape of investors looks like.
00:37:12
So about 80% of UK investors are ex-corporate CEOs, CFOs,
00:37:20
people from the city.
00:37:21
They're from that corporate world.
00:37:23
20% are ex-founders, ex-stead founders.
00:37:27
Look at the states where most people get their information.
00:37:29
Most people raising investment in the UK and Europe are reading
00:37:32
articles and content created in Silicon Valley.
00:37:37
If you look at Silicon Valley, 80% of investors early stage
00:37:40
investors there are ex-entrepreneurs, people who
00:37:43
have built and sold businesses.
00:37:46
So it's a very different landscape and a very different
00:37:49
mindset and you've got to remember that in the UK and in
00:37:53
Europe you're primarily pitching to someone who comes from that
00:37:57
more corporate world.
00:37:58
They are used to making internal corporate investment
00:38:02
decisions off of the back of a business case an internal
00:38:05
business case, a financial projection of what the return of
00:38:09
that project would be and someone pitching to them why
00:38:13
they should do it.
00:38:13
But most people think raising investments like it is in
00:38:16
Silicon Valley with Airbnb, and they just put this pitch
00:38:19
together and suddenly there's a million to pounds or dollars
00:38:22
thrown their way.
00:38:23
It's a very different environment and a different
00:38:26
culture and a different attitude , to risk this side of the pond,
00:38:30
and it is very much the people you're pitching to are the
00:38:32
people you used to pitch to in your corporate days, and that's
00:38:36
why we go through the process we go through, because you need to
00:38:38
be prepared for that and you need to make sure you have the
00:38:41
answers.
00:38:42
Ben Maynard: Well, that increases my confidence and
00:38:44
modicum James, our time together is sadly drawn to a close.
00:38:47
It's just I was looking down now and it's just flown by.
00:38:50
It's been really fascinating, really got me thinking and, yeah
00:38:53
, I'll have to talk to you afterwards as well about a few
00:38:55
things, because, yeah, I mean, what you've got is a really
00:38:57
interesting proposition and I think that you know, if people
00:39:01
are serious about getting something to market, in getting
00:39:04
some support, and they've got the time to put aside to do it,
00:39:08
and they're being prepared to make an investment of money as
00:39:13
well as time in making sure that they can turn us something
00:39:15
that's fruitful, then your service, I think, could be a
00:39:19
marvelous way for people to make it a reality, because I don't
00:39:22
think people who have an idea about something they want to do
00:39:25
realize just how challenging it will be or how much it might
00:39:29
cost them.
00:39:29
The Internet is full of stories of people who just made an
00:39:33
account on Amazon and started with it dropshipping stuff from
00:39:37
China or whatever it might be, and they made all this money.
00:39:39
but you know that isn't or or could just go on and start
00:39:41
trading and make a ton of cash.
00:39:43
Those things don't really happen to those people because
00:39:47
if they did, they wouldn't be advertising it.
00:39:49
If it was easy to do, everyone will be doing it and it will be
00:39:52
rich.
00:39:53
James Church: That's it.
00:39:53
That's it.
00:39:54
The media is very selective as to you know the reality of
00:39:58
entrepreneurship and what's involved and it's great that we
00:40:02
have these great success stories that we see and inspire us, but
00:40:08
we also have to realize that, strategically, the founder that
00:40:13
went and raised 10 million off the back of a pitch deck and
00:40:16
their idea is the you know if a hand, if a tiny percentage of
00:40:21
founders are raising investment in the first place, they're a
00:40:23
tiny percentage of the that are getting those sorts of results
00:40:28
and usually it's because they know their investors from a
00:40:30
previous life.
00:40:31
They're, they're, they're one of them and they know, they knew
00:40:35
who's back to scratch.
00:40:36
But you've got to sometimes do a bit digging on those stories
00:40:39
and see what the reality is.
00:40:41
Ben Maynard: Yes, I know a few stories like that, but that's
00:40:45
the thing.
00:40:46
I think that some people have got brilliant ideas and they're
00:40:51
really fortunate to be in a situation where they've got more
00:40:53
support than the average person .
00:40:55
You could have an equally as Bryn or more brilliant idea and
00:40:58
doesn't have the financial or familial or external support
00:41:02
that the people have, so they just not less likely to make it
00:41:05
a risk.
00:41:06
James Church: I'll often say and I'd mentioned it a few times in
00:41:08
the book great ideas don't raise investment.
00:41:11
Great communication does.
00:41:13
There's lots of great ideas that never go anywhere because
00:41:16
founders can't access that capital or pitch that vision and
00:41:19
access the resources they need, whether that be financial or
00:41:22
human resources.
00:41:23
They just, you know, they're unable to pitch their vision and
00:41:26
it's not the great idea that determines success, it's the
00:41:28
founders ability to pitch that idea.
00:41:31
And then, ultimately, there's two killers to raising
00:41:34
investment.
00:41:34
The first is being able to communicate your idea in a way
00:41:38
that convinces investors that they want to back your business,
00:41:40
versus all of the hundreds of other opportunities that are
00:41:43
landing in front of them any given week.
00:41:45
And the second is a founders ability to meet potential
00:41:49
investors, actually build a network of high net worth
00:41:52
individuals and angels who would give them the capital if they
00:41:54
had a great pitch and a great business case.
00:41:58
So there's two big killers and if you can solve our goal is to
00:42:01
solve those two killers help you communicate that in a way that
00:42:04
inspires investors to want to get involved and, secondly, find
00:42:08
prospective investors to actually pitch to in the first
00:42:11
place that have the inclination and capital to invest into
00:42:15
businesses like yours, and if you can solve those two things,
00:42:19
your chances dramatically increase.
00:42:20
And that's what it comes down to.
00:42:23
Ben Maynard: James, thank you so much.
00:42:24
I tried to this quickly, as you're talking, to reflect back
00:42:27
on the conversation and trying to think what if I was going to
00:42:29
summarize it.
00:42:30
Well, I couldn't do it justice, but for me this has been the
00:42:32
conversation about pivoting, about having a strong vision for
00:42:35
what you're trying to achieve, not really caring how much of
00:42:39
that vision you can achieve with your product, the thing you're
00:42:42
getting out there, but having a vision that's so strong it pulls
00:42:45
you through and drives you to succeed.
00:42:48
And then it's a story of your ability to do that At Robert
00:42:52
mascot, you know and really create a network and a system
00:42:55
which helps people get the funding and turn them into
00:42:59
people at their kitchen table who are just running a business
00:43:03
and trying to make a success to real solid I hate the word, but
00:43:07
I can't think of any better or now, but you know bulletproof
00:43:10
entrepreneurs of a strong business plan and financial
00:43:12
projections, but a strong vision they can articulate and that's,
00:43:15
for many people, worth its weight in gold.
00:43:16
Thank you for sharing all of that with us, james.
00:43:20
For people who want to find out more, could you share with us
00:43:23
your website address and any other mechanisms?
00:43:26
James Church: Yes, you can connect to me on LinkedIn, on
00:43:29
social as far as hang out most.
00:43:30
So James Church on LinkedIn and you're I'm sure you'll find me.
00:43:33
The robot mascot website is robot mascot dot code UK.
00:43:37
From that website, you can get yourself a free copy of the of
00:43:40
my book, so you can order yourself a free copy from there.
00:43:41
There's also, if you go to pitch ready dot code UK, pitch
00:43:44
ready You'll be able to access a scorecard as well.
00:43:49
You have to assess your own ability right now to go and
00:43:52
raise capital and that will give you a tailored report on your
00:43:56
investment readiness and what you might need to work on to To
00:43:59
get more ready.
00:44:00
Ben Maynard: Yeah, there's a few different resources there that
00:44:01
you'll be able to access to continue on the journey
00:44:05
Fantastic but we'll make sure the links for those are in the
00:44:08
show notes and we'll check some of them on to our social media
00:44:11
posts as well.
00:44:12
And, of course, james will be tagging you In LinkedIn.
00:44:14
Whatever other mechanisms we use, like talk, tick tock, crazy
00:44:19
engagement, tick tock at the moment must saying before we
00:44:21
start, actually, so yeah, deflux and tick tock LinkedIn,
00:44:25
instagram, so that you can see all of the great content that we
00:44:29
have and links to the relevant things that James was speaking
00:44:33
about there.
00:44:33
James, thank you so much for coming on.
00:44:35
It's been a delight, and I say the time was just for loan by,
00:44:38
so thank you very much.
00:44:44
Maybe next year we can come on and we can talk about how some
00:44:49
success stories, perhaps maybe we can find a way to have some
00:44:52
people share, some of those people be interested in hearing
00:44:55
that and they will.
00:44:57
Thank you very much.
00:44:58
Listening will be back again next week, so please make sure
00:45:01
that you join us then.
00:45:02
Thank you very much.
James Church: And that became our niche and our go-to.
00:00:02
We quite quickly became the UK's leading agency, trusted by
00:00:07
big players in the market Crowdcube, Cedars, Deng Global.
00:00:09
We were winning global awards for what we did.
00:00:11
We really started to get the rewards for taking that kind of
00:00:16
brave decision to niche.
00:00:17
There's all this other stuff we could do and we were earning
00:00:19
money out of, but we took that brave step to niche, which can
00:00:22
be really difficult for agencies starting out, and we got the
00:00:26
rewards for it and we saw incredible growth as a result
00:00:29
and really defined our space in what at the time was a fairly
00:00:33
new market.
00:00:34
Ben Maynard: Welcome to the Product Agility podcast.
00:00:36
The missing link between agile and product.
00:00:38
The purpose of this podcast is to share practical tips,
00:00:42
strategies and stories from world-class thought leaders and
00:00:45
practitioners.
00:00:46
Why, I hear you ask.
00:00:48
Well, I want to increase your knowledge and your motivation to
00:00:52
experiment so that together we can create ever more successful
00:00:56
products.
00:00:56
My name is Ben Maynard and I'm your host.
00:00:59
What has driven me for the last decade to bridge the gap
00:01:02
between agility and product is a deep-rooted belief that people
00:01:06
and products evolving together can achieve mutual excellence.
00:01:09
Hello and welcome to the Product Agility podcast.
00:01:13
Today we are joined by James Church, who is author of the
00:01:17
best-selling book the Investable Entrepreneur.
00:01:20
Now, james has been on my radar for a while because he is the,
00:01:25
as well as being an author, the co-founder of the Global
00:01:27
Award-winning Investment Readiness Agency.
00:01:29
Robotmascot mascot do sounds really interesting and offer is
00:01:36
a pretty interesting and unique proposition.
00:01:38
So it's an absolute joy, james, to have you on the podcast.
00:01:42
Welcome, thank you.
00:01:44
James Church: Thanks for having me through to be here and yeah,
00:01:46
well, great intro.
00:01:47
Thank you.
00:01:47
I'm glad I sparked some interest.
00:01:49
Ben Maynard: No, you really did, because you used the word
00:01:51
sprints in what you do and, being an old scrum person,
00:01:56
sprint it instantly.
00:01:57
Then peaked my interest.
00:01:58
Oh, another application of sprints.
00:02:00
I said an old scrum person, so I'm not a new scrum person, post
00:02:04
scrum person maybe, I'm not sure, but it really did find it
00:02:08
interesting because, being a co-founder myself and working to
00:02:13
get a product in the market, I know it's incredibly difficult.
00:02:15
And we do get to those points where you just begin to see the
00:02:19
enormity of what's ahead of you and you realize that a lot of
00:02:22
the stories of people that have done really well with particular
00:02:25
technology products have done well because they've had some
00:02:28
external support from some mechanism, whatever that might
00:02:33
have been.
00:02:33
And when you don't have that external support, you begin to
00:02:36
realize that there's a lot of money that's potentially needed
00:02:38
to make this thing a success and the service that you offer
00:02:41
which I'm talking around but not going into great detail on, I
00:02:44
think is really fascinating.
00:02:46
So we're going to be talking a little bit today about your book
00:02:49
and we're talking a lot, probably, about what Robot
00:02:51
Maskot do and maybe a little bit about James Church, the man the
00:02:55
myth.
00:02:58
James Church: Maybe not quite the myth, but certainly the man.
00:03:01
Ben Maynard: Yeah, no myths surrounding me.
00:03:02
You're an open book, so I gave you an introduction.
00:03:06
Is there anything else about you personally, james, that
00:03:09
you'd like to share with the audience before we get into the
00:03:11
topics of the day?
00:03:13
James Church: Oh wow, to share personally, really personally,
00:03:16
like my life or my work life.
00:03:17
What do you want?
00:03:18
I don't know.
00:03:18
I'm a father of two, got a beautiful wife, two amazing boys
00:03:23
.
00:03:23
That's the personal life.
00:03:25
The whole reason for what we do at Robot Maskot and writing the
00:03:29
book and everything we're probably going to talk about
00:03:31
today is really around this desire to really help founders
00:03:36
take their ideas to the next level.
00:03:37
We love incredible ideas and get so frustrated at seeing them
00:03:42
fail to raise that capital.
00:03:43
They need to get to the next level, to take that beyond an
00:03:47
idea or beyond a small business into something quite incredible
00:03:52
and having impact on multiple levels.
00:03:54
So, yeah, that's really what drives us is this idea that we'd
00:03:58
love ideas, we want them to succeed and we want them to have
00:04:00
the capital they need to be able to do that.
00:04:02
Ben Maynard: So let's be clear, then, for those of you that are
00:04:04
listening.
00:04:04
They're wondering just what this service is.
00:04:07
Did you offer the opportunity for founders to take their ideas
00:04:10
and really turn them into something which has a good
00:04:13
market fit, with the adequate funding along the journey to
00:04:17
make it a consistent reality?
00:04:19
And this is more, you're not giving them the money, are you?
00:04:21
Can you maybe explain to the audience what exactly do you do
00:04:24
at Robot Maskot?
00:04:25
James Church: Yeah, so we describe ourselves as an
00:04:27
investment readiness agency or a pitch agency.
00:04:30
So we help founders communicate their concept, their business,
00:04:34
their two investors so they can get the capital they need to
00:04:37
fund their growth.
00:04:38
So we work with pre-seed and series A funding, which is your
00:04:42
early stage funding.
00:04:43
So all the way through, from concepts to those with a million
00:04:46
in revenues, looking for a funding to take that next step.
00:04:49
So if your concept stage it might be looking for a few
00:04:52
hundred thousand to build your prototype, launch it to market,
00:04:55
test it on some users, If you're at that other end of the scale,
00:04:58
you've already there.
00:04:58
You've got a million in revenues and you're looking to
00:05:00
scale from one to 10 million, 10 to 100.
00:05:03
I bet you want that sort of millions of pounds in funding to
00:05:06
go and tackle new markets, launch new products, scale up
00:05:10
internationally, whatever it may be.
00:05:11
So yeah, we're working with founders all the way through
00:05:14
that journey.
00:05:15
Ben Maynard: That's something you said we were talking before
00:05:19
I hit record was that you help founders to go away from just
00:05:24
doing this thing as a let's say this thing, trying to make their
00:05:28
idea reality as something to do as well as their job, their
00:05:32
part-time job, and actually turn this into a profession.
00:05:34
This is a living for them rather than just being something
00:05:37
which is on the side.
00:05:38
James Church: Yeah, so many of our founders, certainly those at
00:05:40
the earlier stage this is currently their side hustle.
00:05:43
They've been working on it for months or years, validating that
00:05:48
this is a goer, it's something that the market wants and needs,
00:05:52
and now they need to take that leap and they need to start
00:05:54
building something and take some capital and also time, and they
00:05:58
need to be able to quit their job and focus on it full-time
00:06:01
and they perhaps need to bring in a small team around them to
00:06:04
start developing a very basic version of the product and get
00:06:08
it out into the market.
00:06:09
So, yeah, we're often helping founders take that leap through
00:06:12
the work that we do, which is preparing them for raising
00:06:15
capital and then helping them reach out to prospective
00:06:18
investors and build a network of high net worth and angel
00:06:21
investors in their niche.
00:06:23
And, yeah, so it's those and it's also founders that have
00:06:26
been there.
00:06:27
They've already taken that leap .
00:06:28
They're doing this full-time.
00:06:29
Maybe they've been doing it sort of hustling, bootstrapping
00:06:32
it for the last two to three years and now they're looking
00:06:34
for that external funding to take that next step.
00:06:37
So, yeah, a real broad mix of motivations.
00:06:41
Ben Maynard: I'm sure there's some people who are listening
00:06:43
that can relate to this, and we were saying this isn't for the
00:06:47
person that had a great idea done the pub last night.
00:06:49
This is for people that are serious about taking a risk.
00:06:54
Well before we go into the depths of some of this, I'd like
00:06:57
to do it just to backtrack, because one thing that I do love
00:07:01
talking about is products, and, of course, you help many
00:07:03
products get to market with the pitch support that you provide.
00:07:06
But also the way that Raybott mascot has ended up in its
00:07:10
current incarnation was the story of productization, was the
00:07:14
story of discovery and pivoting , and I'd love for you, if it's
00:07:18
okay, just to share a little bit of the story for how how
00:07:21
Raybott mascot ended up where it is today.
00:07:25
James Church: Yeah, so we're coming up for 10 years old,
00:07:26
depending on whether you count when, when the founder of the
00:07:29
company, nick, started working as a freelancer under the name
00:07:32
robot mascot and then I joined him later, or whether you count
00:07:35
it from when we've officially limited, registered as a limited
00:07:38
company, depends on how old we are.
00:07:40
But we're in and around 10 years old and we started life as
00:07:43
a full service creative brand agency, brand communication
00:07:46
agency.
00:07:47
We were doing websites and brochures and TV ads and radio
00:07:51
campaigns and all kinds of cool projects and over time we we
00:07:57
realized that we were sort of spreading ourselves too thin a
00:07:59
little bit.
00:07:59
We were doing a lot of various different things.
00:08:02
We were a new business.
00:08:03
We just said yes to whatever work was coming our way and we
00:08:07
got.
00:08:07
We started to identify the startups were.
00:08:11
We always wanted to work with pioneers, like our original kind
00:08:15
of brief as a business.
00:08:16
We wanted to work with creators , with pioneers, with idea
00:08:19
generators, and we were attracting those sorts of
00:08:21
clients, naturally through the way that we operated as a
00:08:24
business.
00:08:24
We were working with startups and we're helping them build
00:08:26
their brand or whatever it may be.
00:08:28
And then they needed funding and they asked us if we could
00:08:30
help them with their pitch deck and we said, yeah sure, how hard
00:08:33
can it be as a design and communication job at the end of
00:08:35
the day?
00:08:35
And we did that.
00:08:36
We've sort of muddled through, figured it out for a couple of
00:08:38
clients, as you do when you start, and a couple of our
00:08:41
advisors were angel investors.
00:08:43
They saw the work that we were doing and said, actually there's
00:08:45
a real need, like you're smashing it.
00:08:47
If every pitch in our inbox was like what you've been creating
00:08:50
for your clients here, that would make our lives so much
00:08:53
easier.
00:08:54
So I think we've got something really special here, really
00:08:56
interesting.
00:08:56
So we went away and researched that more and ultimately
00:08:59
realized that there was a massive problem with my business
00:09:03
partner, nick.
00:09:03
He defined as the zombie stare you know founders of pitching
00:09:07
these ideas to investors and they can blank glazed overlooks
00:09:11
where no one really understands why it needs to exist, where you
00:09:14
know what its potential is.
00:09:15
They're saying all the wrong things in the wrong way and we
00:09:17
knew we could apply our brand communication expertise to that
00:09:22
and start applying it into that space.
00:09:24
So we started doing that.
00:09:25
We launched a sort of a test landing page for that
00:09:28
incarnation of the business and started pitching, it started
00:09:31
going to more and more events in the startup ecosystem,
00:09:34
realizing that, yeah, this was having real, real traction,
00:09:37
getting real interest from founders and investors alike,
00:09:40
and that sort of snowballed from there really started
00:09:43
interviewing investors and founders and refining our
00:09:45
process, realizing there was much more to it than we really
00:09:48
originally thought.
00:09:49
And all of that led into the methodology that I talk about in
00:09:53
the book Investible entrepreneur, and that really is
00:09:56
the summary of all the learnings from the exercise.
00:09:58
And in and around the time we launched the book, we fully
00:10:01
pivoted the agency from full service creative agency into
00:10:06
investment readiness agency and that became our niche and our go
00:10:09
to.
00:10:09
We quite quickly became the UK's leading agency, trusted by
00:10:14
big players in the market crowdcube seeders, dent, global.
00:10:18
We were winning global awards for what we did.
00:10:19
You know, we really started to get the rewards for taking that
00:10:24
kind of brave decision to niche.
00:10:25
There's all this other stuff we could do and we were earning
00:10:28
money out of, but we took that brave step to niche, which can
00:10:31
be really difficult for us sort of agencies starting out and we
00:10:35
got the rewards for it and we saw incredible growth as a
00:10:37
result and really defined defined our space in what, at
00:10:40
the time, was a fairly new market.
00:10:44
Ben Maynard: You make it all sound so easy.
00:10:46
James Church: Well, yeah, that's 10 years condensed into a
00:10:49
minute or so there, but yeah.
00:10:51
Ben Maynard: There must have been something that was
00:10:52
difficult during those times.
00:10:55
James Church: Yeah, there was loads of lots of difficult
00:10:57
moments.
00:10:58
One was deciding where if we were going to niche and where
00:11:01
that was a big decision, building a reputation, getting
00:11:04
leads and I think the biggest challenge that we're always
00:11:07
faced by people in the industry is surely startups have no money
00:11:12
?
00:11:12
How can they pay for your services?
00:11:14
That has that sort of a bit of a falsity.
00:11:17
But because when you look at any successful business, that is
00:11:20
true.
00:11:20
There's plenty of people out there with ideas with no capital
00:11:23
.
00:11:23
We're there to help them find the capital, but you do need a
00:11:26
bit of your own capital or friends with family capital to
00:11:29
to invest.
00:11:30
So all of our startups have got to that stage where we're very
00:11:33
clear they're people that are able to self fund some of this
00:11:36
development themselves, have already invested a certain
00:11:39
amount themselves, or they've got friends and family
00:11:41
investment that they're using to fund their growth and we're
00:11:43
part of that wider picture of various things they need to do
00:11:47
to get their business off the ground.
00:11:49
But part of kind of our strategy was figuring out how do we
00:11:52
align with our own vision.
00:11:53
Our ethos was always to be the friends and allies of founders,
00:11:57
be their support, be their guide .
00:11:58
How do we align to that, while also understanding that there is
00:12:04
a small section of the market that would pay for a service
00:12:08
like we offer and that we're going to be able to make money
00:12:10
out of.
00:12:11
And that's where kind of things like the book and stuff really
00:12:14
started to form and take shape, because we could offer that as a
00:12:18
low cost or even free kind of here's.
00:12:22
Here's how you do it.
00:12:24
We're going to tell you everything we know and we're
00:12:28
here to support and guide you first and foremost.
00:12:30
Now, if you then want to bring in experts to help you execute
00:12:32
on that, then we're here, but there's no expectation that
00:12:35
you're going to be in the position to do that.
00:12:38
There's free workshop I deliver every week.
00:12:40
There's the book.
00:12:41
There's an online scorecard and assessment.
00:12:43
There's downloads and resources .
00:12:45
We've got enough stuff out there that, if you wanted to
00:12:47
commit time and effort to it, you can do it yourself.
00:12:49
And then our service is for those that want to access their
00:12:53
expertise and leverage their time and do those things.
00:12:56
Figuring that out was probably the biggest challenge of how do
00:12:59
we square that circle, how do we get that right and stick true
00:13:03
to our ethos and our vision and what we want robot mascot to
00:13:07
stand for, while also providing a premium and expert service
00:13:11
where we don't cut corners, we don't bring in juniors and cut
00:13:14
the price.
00:13:15
We work with real experts so we can add value.
00:13:18
That's probably the biggest challenge.
00:13:23
Ben Maynard: You've mentioned vision at least three times,
00:13:27
which I really like.
00:13:28
It's no big secret that I'm a big fan of having a clear vision
00:13:34
for what you're trying to achieve.
00:13:35
Is it fair to say that vision is what helped you achieve the
00:13:40
growth that you've had?
00:13:42
James Church: Yeah, I think so.
00:13:43
I mean, I guess you've got to remember me and my business
00:13:47
partner from a brand and marketing background.
00:13:48
So my business partner, nick, the original founder, he's from
00:13:52
top ten agencies, worked on ad campaigns for likes at Jaguar
00:13:56
and Barclays and Tesco and these big brands.
00:14:00
So he comes from a world of brand and vision and messaging
00:14:04
and, equally, I come from a brand and marketing background.
00:14:06
That's how we met.
00:14:07
You know, internally Talk about brand instead of business.
00:14:11
You know we use the word brand Rather than business.
00:14:14
I think that's quite unique to our background is that we use
00:14:16
those terms into change, a blend , and we live and breathe the
00:14:19
brand.
00:14:19
It's less about the business and the product it's.
00:14:22
You know, we very much Operate around a vision and around a
00:14:26
brand as much as we do anything else.
00:14:29
Ben Maynard: So I guess for you the vision aspect of it Just
00:14:32
fell out of how you wanted to work.
00:14:35
James Church: I think so.
00:14:35
I think a lot of businesses probably start with a product
00:14:38
and start with a Our problem that needs solving and the
00:14:43
status quo they want to change perhaps, but they very much a
00:14:45
lot of people a product led or they focus on the business
00:14:49
mechanics, I suppose, whereas I Guess, naturally, me and my
00:14:55
founder are more vision led because of our background.
00:14:58
So it was all about ethos and vision and values.
00:15:01
And what are we trying to achieve?
00:15:02
How are we challenging that?
00:15:03
That status quo from a broader brand perspective and that, that
00:15:07
, I suppose, gave us the ability to look at these different
00:15:10
opportunities and kind of pivot from full service agency into
00:15:14
this niche, because it was less about Product and more about how
00:15:17
can we live up to the original vision of enabling ideas and
00:15:21
enabling how can we best serve entrepreneurs and founders To
00:15:26
make their ideas a reality.
00:15:28
And that could have been done in a number of different ways.
00:15:31
Ben Maynard: It just so happened that through our research and
00:15:33
through our different Various developments and pivots, it's
00:15:36
ended up here, but it could have quite easily ended up in brand
00:15:40
or in marketing or in in a number of different services so
00:15:44
you and your co-founder are Visionaries, and I would say
00:15:49
about us a statement rather than the question, because I don't
00:15:51
think you can have a compelling vision that achieves the types
00:15:53
of things that you've achieved unless you have that ability.
00:15:58
I don't think everyone has that muscle to come up with a clear
00:16:01
and compelling vision that they really believe in, and I'm not
00:16:04
saying that means they won't be successful.
00:16:05
They could well be, but I think that having a clear purpose and
00:16:08
knowing who you are doing it, for being able to empathize with
00:16:11
them, it helps drive us forward .
00:16:13
And, like you say, if you get that niche right, you do the
00:16:16
research.
00:16:16
But there's always a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
00:16:19
But in in your support then, of startups, companies,
00:16:23
organizations that are going for funding, do you see any
00:16:27
patterns around If I have a vision or not, and how easy or
00:16:31
hard it is to get them to a point where they can be
00:16:34
Successful?
00:16:35
I say successful in so much that they achieve the funding
00:16:38
that they require or is there no correlation for what you see in
00:16:41
between there their vision and then their success and getting
00:16:45
the funding they need?
00:16:47
James Church: nothing.
00:16:47
One of the key things I talk about in in In the book I just
00:16:51
describe it as being a highly resourceful entrepreneur, and
00:16:54
that really is this connection with the idea of being able to
00:16:56
pitch a vision and roll people into your vision.
00:16:59
So investors are looking for Defined as a highly resourceful
00:17:04
entrepreneur, and these are entrepreneurs that can enroll
00:17:06
people into their vision.
00:17:07
They can Not only attract investors and enroll investors
00:17:11
into their vision and have them want to fund their project, but
00:17:14
they can also attract top talent to join their team and maybe
00:17:17
that talent is going to do it below market rate Salary in
00:17:19
return for share options because they believe in this vision.
00:17:22
So much they can acquire to get on board the best advisors.
00:17:25
They can negotiate real strategic partnerships so that
00:17:29
they can leverage to get their market, their product to market
00:17:31
very quickly, access an audience , a ready-made audience, for
00:17:35
example, they you know all of these things happen to a founder
00:17:38
that can pitch their vision and can then enroll people into
00:17:41
their vision.
00:17:42
And you know, entrepreneurship in my mind is a journey of a
00:17:44
sort of thousand pitches.
00:17:45
It's constantly.
00:17:46
You're constantly pitching, whether it's for funding or for
00:17:50
someone to join your team or to get a partnership deal or to
00:17:53
exit your business at the very end.
00:17:55
It's a constant series of pitches, and one of the key
00:17:58
things we Want to be able to do with our clients and it's easier
00:18:02
with some than others, I'm not gonna lie, but is extract away
00:18:06
from yes, this is the product and these are the functional
00:18:08
benefits and features and things , but what's the bigger vision?
00:18:12
How are you?
00:18:12
What's the thing that we can all get excited by, whether we
00:18:15
understand the technology or the , the product itself?
00:18:18
What can we all, what can we all get excited by, whether it's
00:18:21
an investor or a potential quira or whether it's a New team
00:18:25
member, what is it that we can all get excited by?
00:18:28
And that's a really key.
00:18:29
How do we articulate that and how do we articulate the value
00:18:32
proposition that sits alongside it?
00:18:34
So, yeah, that's a really key part of our process is defining
00:18:37
that pitch, and that starts with Trying to inspire through a
00:18:40
vision and a value proposition.
00:18:43
Ben Maynard: So last question on vision, and then I promise
00:18:45
we'll move on, because I think it's gonna be useful advice to
00:18:48
people.
00:18:48
What is it in your mind that constitutes as a well-crafted
00:18:53
vision, but how do you create that excitement and that desire
00:18:58
To follow?
00:18:59
James Church: Yeah.
00:18:59
So it has to be something that's beyond making money.
00:19:02
It has to be a vision.
00:19:03
Beyond making money.
00:19:03
It has to talk to, to an emotion.
00:19:07
It can't be.
00:19:08
No, really poor vision would be To be the market leader in X.
00:19:13
That's a strategic vision.
00:19:15
That's a strategic aim goal.
00:19:17
It's not really a vision.
00:19:18
Brands like dove do it really well.
00:19:20
I don't know exactly, but it's.
00:19:21
The essence of it is to change the way women feel about their
00:19:24
body.
00:19:24
Everyone's beautiful, whatever they look like.
00:19:26
You know, that's something we can all get behind and we can
00:19:29
all agree with and we can all aspire to do.
00:19:30
Now, the way dove execute, that is some really great soaps and
00:19:33
products and and that kind of thing.
00:19:35
But it transcends into everything that they do the way
00:19:38
they position the product, the products they build and develop
00:19:41
and all of those things.
00:19:42
So for me it's yeah, it's got to transcend kind of market
00:19:45
growth targets and Product, and you should probably never
00:19:49
mention your product in a vision .
00:19:51
You know If you're mentioning your product in a vision, you're
00:19:53
probably doing it wrong.
00:19:53
So, yeah, it's just got to be something that everyone can
00:19:56
emotionally attach to and say I want a world in which that is
00:19:59
the case, doesn't have a great and your product doesn't have to
00:20:03
solve your vision fully either.
00:20:05
The vision is much bigger.
00:20:06
You want to see a world where this happens.
00:20:09
We want to see a world in which a great ideas and innovations
00:20:12
flourish.
00:20:13
Right, that's the robot mascot one.
00:20:14
We do that in one way, helping them access capital to make that
00:20:19
happen.
00:20:19
We don't have to then solve that whole vision.
00:20:22
We don't have to have a suite of services that ensure every
00:20:25
idea and innovation flourishes in all aspects of business, but
00:20:29
that's the vision that the Grounds everything that we do.
00:20:33
Our product is a tiny part of that becoming a but it also.
00:20:38
If we were to look at let's say we look at this in 10 years
00:20:40
time in robot mascots now looking to make some
00:20:43
acquisitions To grow our business, that would be a
00:20:47
leading statement as to what sort of businesses are we're
00:20:49
going to acquire from that.
00:20:50
We can move into any product or service or acquire any type of
00:20:53
business we like, as long as those businesses align with that
00:20:57
vision of Having this business as part of the robot mascot
00:21:01
portfolio.
00:21:01
Would that Enable great ideas and innovations to flourish?
00:21:05
And if the answer is yes, then that's a perfectly strategic
00:21:10
Acquisition for robot mascot.
00:21:12
Ben Maynard: I think you're really talking well to the power
00:21:14
of a vision.
00:21:14
I love what you said when you said a good vision perhaps
00:21:17
doesn't even mention the product .
00:21:18
I'm sorry, great advice.
00:21:21
James Church: I think, is when you're a founder of a startup or
00:21:24
any business.
00:21:24
There's some big businesses with really terrible brand
00:21:27
visions and values, often because they're co-created by
00:21:31
senior management.
00:21:31
They often say, in an agency land, a camel is a horse
00:21:36
designed by committee.
00:21:37
Someone's got to be brave enough to just go.
00:21:39
That's it and that's what we're sticking with.
00:21:41
But, yes, it's very easy to go back to your product because
00:21:45
that's all you know, that's all you care about right now, as a
00:21:47
startup is getting this product off the ground.
00:21:49
It also means that when it comes to pivoting, if you've built
00:21:52
your whole concept, your whole business around a particular set
00:21:57
of product features, it's then very difficult for you to accept
00:22:00
that perhaps that isn't quite what the market wants and needs
00:22:03
and I need to change and pivot what I'm offering, or as if it
00:22:07
starts from a broader vision of we want to change the world in
00:22:10
this way, and the way we think we're going to do that right now
00:22:13
is these product features.
00:22:14
It allows you much more easily to feel comfortable with
00:22:18
pivoting and changing and learning from what the market is
00:22:21
saying, without having those blinkers on and going.
00:22:23
But my idea is blockchain, because my vision is that we're
00:22:26
going to build a blockchain company that does X and says no
00:22:30
if that's not the right technology, if that's not
00:22:33
delivering the ultimate vision, then don't be blinkered on the
00:22:36
fact that you've promised everyone a blockchain technology
00:22:38
, whereas if that's baked into your vision and your value
00:22:40
proposition the technology that features the benefits then
00:22:44
you're backing yourself into a corner and not allowing you to
00:22:47
create something that genuinely is meaningful to the market and
00:22:51
will actually solve a problem.
00:22:54
Ben Maynard: It reminds me of a post I did on LinkedIn ages ago
00:22:58
and actually maybe quite recently as well.
00:22:59
I think I reposted it, but the time that I spent internally in
00:23:03
organizations trying to help people come up with a vision for
00:23:07
what it is they wanted just never worked.
00:23:09
It was a bunch of senior managers who had an idea for a
00:23:13
great solution but had never done the research to see whether
00:23:17
or not the users in the organization these were internal
00:23:19
things.
00:23:20
This wasn't externally facing whether the users internally of
00:23:23
an organization actually had a problem to solve by what they
00:23:25
were producing.
00:23:26
And many of these things never really were the success that
00:23:31
people believed they would be.
00:23:32
Many of them never even got off the ground because actually,
00:23:35
when it came to the crunch, they couldn't make a business case
00:23:38
for it, because there wasn't any reason to produce this solution
00:23:41
, because it was always a solution trying to find a
00:23:43
problem, and I think that the stuff on vision is just awesome.
00:23:47
Have you read the book Radical Product Thinking?
00:23:50
I haven't, no, mate, check it out.
00:23:53
Awesome book and really the way you're talking.
00:23:57
So similar and Radical Product Thinking is going to be coming
00:23:59
over in September.
00:24:00
I think we're going to be running a Radical Product
00:24:02
Thinking workshop together in London actually.
00:24:06
So yeah, read the book.
00:24:08
It's a fantastic book.
00:24:09
James Church: I think you will have to do.
00:24:09
It Sounds good.
00:24:10
Ben Maynard: Awesome.
00:24:10
So let's go back and let's think.
00:24:14
So we've covered a lot on vision because I think that's
00:24:17
relevant to the people listening .
00:24:18
That's also something that I just care passionately about,
00:24:21
and you spoke about it so well about how to be compelling.
00:24:24
Maybe doesn't mention the product, talks about the
00:24:25
difference you're going to make in the world, needs to contain
00:24:27
emotion, top advice.
00:24:29
So if we then think about the process that you help
00:24:34
entrepreneurs aspiring entrepreneurs go through with
00:24:38
RobotMasker, what exactly, then, is the process that people will
00:24:42
go through?
00:24:43
when they engage with you.
00:24:45
James Church: Yeah.
00:24:45
So all of this talk of vision it sounds idyllic but it takes a
00:24:49
long while to one get there and get that language, because
00:24:54
you're trying to boil everything that's going around in your
00:24:57
head down to maybe one or two sentences or a couple of slides
00:25:00
in a pitch deck.
00:25:01
So it's really difficult to articulate that off the bat.
00:25:04
So we found that the process we've created the methodology
00:25:09
that I talk about in the book is really takes a massive step
00:25:14
back and just starts with the business plan.
00:25:18
What is the business?
00:25:19
What does it do?
00:25:20
Why does it exist?
00:25:21
What problems is it solving?
00:25:22
What opportunities are there in the market?
00:25:24
How are we going to do it?
00:25:26
What are the products?
00:25:26
What's the current kind of status of the product?
00:25:30
What features, what benefits will it have now and in the
00:25:32
future?
00:25:33
What's the development time?
00:25:34
I get all of that down, get it out of your head so it can't
00:25:38
encumbe future development.
00:25:40
Get it all down there, get it all articulated as a solid
00:25:42
business plan.
00:25:43
And that does two things.
00:25:45
The first is it's really great when it comes to raising
00:25:48
investment, as in your due diligence pack, and being able
00:25:51
to show this is all the detail behind the pitch, the detail
00:25:54
behind the financial forecast, all the assumptions, everything
00:25:57
that we talk about is backed up by considerable thinking and
00:26:02
research and strategy in this document.
00:26:04
So it gives you that credibility behind the things
00:26:08
that you're going to be presenting to the investor.
00:26:10
The second thing it does is it gives founders a better ability
00:26:13
to articulate those things like the business strategy and the
00:26:16
product and the feature set and all of those things to an
00:26:19
investor, because they've considered how it all links
00:26:22
together and how they're going to communicate in written form
00:26:24
through a business plan.
00:26:25
So it makes their own conversations with investors
00:26:28
after the pitch and the Q&A more succinct and more articulate
00:26:31
because they've gone through that process.
00:26:33
And the final thing is it gives founder confidence when it
00:26:36
comes to their pitch To do a really top-level vision and
00:26:41
value proposition without feeling the need to list
00:26:45
everything, absolutely everything, in their pitch,
00:26:48
which makes the pitch more compelling and engaging and
00:26:51
people can be inspired by what you're presenting because the
00:26:55
founder feels confident it's okay to just say this is what we
00:26:58
do in one sentence Without over explaining it, because I know
00:27:01
I've got all the detail Ready to explain to an investor if I
00:27:05
need to.
00:27:05
So it's almost a psychological process of getting to that
00:27:09
vision, that value proposition, that clear, an articulate
00:27:11
product pitch.
00:27:12
The whole process is designed sort of twofold one.
00:27:15
It's a really great process for getting to that really clear,
00:27:19
compelling and articulate communication from a practical
00:27:22
sense.
00:27:22
But also the way that we've designed it is Is that the
00:27:27
assets produced along the journey, the outcomes along the
00:27:30
journey of a business plan and then a financial model and then
00:27:33
a set pitch content and then a pitch design Going through that
00:27:37
process in that order creates incredible assets that the you
00:27:42
can leverage in front of investors and in conversations
00:27:44
with them, that give you credibility and Everything you
00:27:48
need to go and convince an investor that your business is
00:27:50
the ones back.
00:27:51
So it's yes, it's deep dive into everything business and
00:27:55
then unpacking that and going.
00:27:56
How do we say less each time, every every step, the journey,
00:27:59
how do we say less until we get to this clear and articulate
00:28:03
communication?
00:28:05
Ben Maynard: of the business I Think I've probably Puts a lot
00:28:08
of people off.
00:28:09
I think there is this hazy idea that in order to get a product
00:28:13
to market, it's just so easy nowadays and you can just go
00:28:17
ahead and get it out there.
00:28:18
But actually there is a lot of the work that needs to be done
00:28:20
and I think the business plan element of it sounds I don't
00:28:24
know, maybe just I'm of a certain age, but it sounds like
00:28:27
the type of thing you were taught to do in GCSE business
00:28:30
studies, so you know a high school effectively of being
00:28:33
taught how to come out the business plan.
00:28:34
But what you're saying there, that's of critical importance if
00:28:37
you're not going to end up in the situation Much like on the
00:28:40
apprentice which I'm assuming you've seen everything every now
00:28:42
and again.
00:28:43
When they get to the interview stage and they get through this
00:28:45
whole rigmarole, it's down to the last four or five people and
00:28:48
their business plans get interrogated and they just
00:28:50
crumble because there is nothing there.
00:28:54
James Church: It's exactly the point.
00:28:55
When we first pivoted into this space, we only did pitches.
00:28:58
Yeah, you're branding communication.
00:29:01
It was come to us with your idea, tell us about it, we'll do
00:29:03
a workshop and then we'll turn it into a compelling pitch and
00:29:05
that was great.
00:29:06
And our clients were ten times more likely to raise investment
00:29:09
than the industry average is a result of a really compelling
00:29:12
pitch.
00:29:12
That that got them through the door with investors and that was
00:29:15
great.
00:29:15
But we felt we could do much better than that.
00:29:18
I'm sure there's more to be done , and one of the big
00:29:20
frustrations from us was when we were interrogating the client
00:29:23
in the workshops.
00:29:24
They didn't seem to be a lot of substance around go-to-market
00:29:28
strategy or how they were going to.
00:29:30
You know, the validation behind the idea or whatever it may be.
00:29:33
And we got there must be.
00:29:35
Investors must be feeling this pain too, and it became very
00:29:39
clear through our continued kind of research with investors that
00:29:43
the pitch opens the door is the key to opening the safe, if you
00:29:47
like, but it's not the tool that allows you to walk through
00:29:49
the door and fill your bag up with gold the lays behind the
00:29:53
door.
00:29:53
You need different, a different set of tools to do that.
00:29:55
So the pitch is very much the key to opening that.
00:29:58
That safe.
00:29:58
It's not the tool that gives you access to the capital.
00:30:01
So we were like, well, what do they need?
00:30:02
What does a founder then need?
00:30:04
Once they've got through the door, they're going through that
00:30:06
due diligence, they're getting the Q&A there.
00:30:08
You know he's talked about the apprentice.
00:30:11
The dragon's den is another great one.
00:30:12
You give it, they give a great three minute pitch and then, as
00:30:16
soon as the dragon starts in questions, they're crumbles.
00:30:18
They got nothing behind, no substance for the investors to
00:30:22
invest into.
00:30:23
So that was the next problem that needs solving.
00:30:25
We're opening those doors.
00:30:26
We've got the key that's opening all these doors.
00:30:30
How do we make sure that when they walk through that door,
00:30:32
they've got the resources they need to be able to hold
00:30:35
themselves up to investor scrutiny, appear to be credible
00:30:38
and all those things.
00:30:39
And that's where it was very clear that they needed a way to
00:30:43
start thinking and articulating the finer details of the
00:30:46
business strategy and a way to articulate the numbers in a way
00:30:50
that made sense to investors.
00:30:51
Not sense to have founders, because founders love to focus
00:30:54
on opportunities and possibilities and ideas, whereas
00:30:58
investors want to talk about underlying assets and risk and
00:31:02
cash flow and all of those sorts of things.
00:31:05
So how do we train founders that, again going through a
00:31:09
process, they are leveled up as a founder, they learn a lot, so
00:31:14
they can hold their own in these one-to-one kind of Q&A
00:31:18
Underscruciating from investors, but also have the documentation
00:31:21
to back them up.
00:31:22
They have a get out of jail free card as well.
00:31:24
If they can't quite remember the answer, they can always refer
00:31:27
the investor onto the business plan with the detail.
00:31:29
How do we give them useful tools that one level them up as
00:31:32
a founder and two, provide useful Outcomes, useful assets
00:31:37
that they can use in the process ?
00:31:39
And that's where we started the business planning and the
00:31:41
financial projections as a service.
00:31:43
And then the ultimate result of combining those three steps of
00:31:46
business plan financials, pitch materials, was that where our
00:31:50
pitch assets were getting clients 10 times more likely to
00:31:53
raise investment as a whole set, our clients are now 40 times
00:31:57
more likely to raise investment, so massive increase in the
00:32:00
founders ability to raise investment because they
00:32:02
themselves are leveled up.
00:32:03
They haven't just got this great story in this compelling
00:32:05
vision.
00:32:05
They've now got a really credible strategy that backs
00:32:09
that up and, as a result, they're raising more money more
00:32:13
often.
00:32:14
Ben Maynard: It's sounding Like a panacea, almost, you know,
00:32:18
like it's almost too good to be true.
00:32:19
I'm not saying it is, but it does.
00:32:22
It 40 times more likely is a phenomenal statistic and it's
00:32:26
true.
00:32:26
Yeah, you're not gonna say if it isn't, I'm just wondering
00:32:30
because it's been so phenomenally successful.
00:32:31
Have you found you've now got competition in the market?
00:32:35
Are people With similar products and trying to encroach,
00:32:39
and I suppose that how have you , how have you found you needed
00:32:42
to evolve to stay relevant?
00:32:44
James Church: Hmm, yeah, I mean I think we've always had
00:32:46
competition in the form of individual consultants, and some
00:32:51
ex-investors at the X investment analysts that sort of
00:32:54
now want to start coaching and mentoring founders.
00:32:57
So that's always been the case.
00:32:58
But we've always positioned ourselves as the premium.
00:33:01
Where you bring in a team of individuals, we've got business
00:33:04
strategists, financial strategists, copywriters,
00:33:06
designers Everyone's expert their own piece of the puzzle
00:33:09
rather than one Consultant.
00:33:11
But we have diversified.
00:33:12
We've got our core done for you services, but we have launched
00:33:16
more mentoring type services where we guide Founders through
00:33:22
more of a do-it-yourself with our guidance and support, so
00:33:25
that we can case it for that, whether they want to, they've
00:33:30
got the time and they want to do it themselves.
00:33:32
But it's just been, you know, for us it's been a case of
00:33:37
Always maintaining standards and making sure we're seen as the
00:33:39
market leader, winning global awards, partnering with great
00:33:42
people, doing all some things.
00:33:46
It just snowballs as you're the the market leader, and so far
00:33:50
that's worked out well for us.
00:33:53
Ben Maynard: Nice.
00:33:54
I want to go on the website and refresh my memory of what it is
00:33:57
that you offer, because it's been a but a few weeks since
00:34:00
I've been on it.
00:34:01
So after we finish, I'm definitely going to be Having a
00:34:04
little look around, because I do find it a really fascinating
00:34:06
proposition and I think it could be so useful, because I think
00:34:08
of where me and my co-founder right now.
00:34:10
There's lots of work that needs to be done and I just wonder
00:34:18
how much we would gain from going through the process.
00:34:22
My guess is probably quite a lot.
00:34:24
If I'm honest with you, I think it's really hard as a founder
00:34:27
to not just focus on the things you're very comfortable with and
00:34:31
strive to get something over the line and get something done
00:34:34
when actually there is other stuff which, in your gut, no
00:34:36
needs to happen, but you just haven't made the time or got the
00:34:40
skills or confined the people to support you on that journey.
00:34:43
James Church: So I think that's probably one of the biggest
00:34:46
value-ats is the development of the founder or the founding team
00:34:49
.
00:34:49
That the being able, an opportunity to pull yourself out
00:34:52
of the trenches of the day to day and look at it more
00:34:54
strategically, with sort of a bird's eye view, and go this is
00:34:57
the longer term, the short, medium and longer term plan.
00:35:00
This is where we're heading, all having agreement and
00:35:02
alignment on what that is and asking you to think about things
00:35:06
you're not so comfortable with.
00:35:07
So we need to cover lots of aspects of business development
00:35:11
and some people are great at sales and marketing.
00:35:12
Some people aren't.
00:35:13
Some people really have a clear understanding of product
00:35:15
development, some people aren't.
00:35:17
It's like how do we support you to have a more rounded view of
00:35:21
the business and not just focus on the thing that you're really
00:35:23
good at?
00:35:24
And I think one founder probably summed it up really well early
00:35:26
stage founder, but had had incredible success with their
00:35:29
business from their kitchen table, now looking to take the
00:35:32
next step.
00:35:33
And they said I started the process as someone with an idea
00:35:37
and I left it feeling like a proper entrepreneur.
00:35:40
They felt like they could be asked any question about their
00:35:42
business and they would have.
00:35:43
May not be a response that people agree with.
00:35:46
They might want to build it in a different way, but at least
00:35:47
they had a response and they knew what they were planning on
00:35:50
doing, because no investor's going to agree with your plans
00:35:53
100% and they'll deliberately challenge you to see what you're
00:35:59
made of, because most founders will see themselves as inferior
00:36:03
to the investor.
00:36:04
So the investor will ask why are you doing that?
00:36:07
Why is your growth rate as it is?
00:36:09
And it'll be like oh sorry, should it be lower, I'll reduce
00:36:11
that, I'll get it back.
00:36:12
Or are they there saying well, I appreciate it, it's a pretty
00:36:16
punchy growth rate, but we believe that to be possible
00:36:19
because of X, y and Z, and they're the founders they want
00:36:23
to invest into, not necessarily the ones who go and go?
00:36:25
Oh, I'm ever so sorry.
00:36:26
Let me change that and get back to you.
00:36:28
Ben Maynard: It's really funny you say that because, it took me
00:36:31
back to my days in corporate life, when the people succeeded
00:36:34
in order to succeed, if you were going to be pitching something
00:36:37
or going for something, then you had to know your stuff and
00:36:41
stick to it.
00:36:42
Don't waver, don't be all apologetic, and you need to show
00:36:45
that you're worthy of in the corporate life, worthy of that
00:36:49
promotion, worthy of being that person's peer, which meant
00:36:52
there's no challenge and it says what you're saying is.
00:36:53
You need to prove you're worthy of their money, because you're
00:36:55
not going to roll over when someone comes along and says, oh
00:36:58
well, why are you doing that?
00:36:59
And I go oh yeah, I don't know why I'm doing that.
00:37:01
Maybe I won't do that, maybe I'll do something else.
00:37:04
James Church: I don't know what you're talking about.
00:37:04
What you say there is it rings true with what the landscape of
00:37:09
the European and UK landscape of investors looks like.
00:37:12
So about 80% of UK investors are ex-corporate CEOs, CFOs,
00:37:20
people from the city.
00:37:21
They're from that corporate world.
00:37:23
20% are ex-founders, ex-stead founders.
00:37:27
Look at the states where most people get their information.
00:37:29
Most people raising investment in the UK and Europe are reading
00:37:32
articles and content created in Silicon Valley.
00:37:37
If you look at Silicon Valley, 80% of investors early stage
00:37:40
investors there are ex-entrepreneurs, people who
00:37:43
have built and sold businesses.
00:37:46
So it's a very different landscape and a very different
00:37:49
mindset and you've got to remember that in the UK and in
00:37:53
Europe you're primarily pitching to someone who comes from that
00:37:57
more corporate world.
00:37:58
They are used to making internal corporate investment
00:38:02
decisions off of the back of a business case an internal
00:38:05
business case, a financial projection of what the return of
00:38:09
that project would be and someone pitching to them why
00:38:13
they should do it.
00:38:13
But most people think raising investments like it is in
00:38:16
Silicon Valley with Airbnb, and they just put this pitch
00:38:19
together and suddenly there's a million to pounds or dollars
00:38:22
thrown their way.
00:38:23
It's a very different environment and a different
00:38:26
culture and a different attitude , to risk this side of the pond,
00:38:30
and it is very much the people you're pitching to are the
00:38:32
people you used to pitch to in your corporate days, and that's
00:38:36
why we go through the process we go through, because you need to
00:38:38
be prepared for that and you need to make sure you have the
00:38:41
answers.
00:38:42
Ben Maynard: Well, that increases my confidence and
00:38:44
modicum James, our time together is sadly drawn to a close.
00:38:47
It's just I was looking down now and it's just flown by.
00:38:50
It's been really fascinating, really got me thinking and, yeah
00:38:53
, I'll have to talk to you afterwards as well about a few
00:38:55
things, because, yeah, I mean, what you've got is a really
00:38:57
interesting proposition and I think that you know, if people
00:39:01
are serious about getting something to market, in getting
00:39:04
some support, and they've got the time to put aside to do it,
00:39:08
and they're being prepared to make an investment of money as
00:39:13
well as time in making sure that they can turn us something
00:39:15
that's fruitful, then your service, I think, could be a
00:39:19
marvelous way for people to make it a reality, because I don't
00:39:22
think people who have an idea about something they want to do
00:39:25
realize just how challenging it will be or how much it might
00:39:29
cost them.
00:39:29
The Internet is full of stories of people who just made an
00:39:33
account on Amazon and started with it dropshipping stuff from
00:39:37
China or whatever it might be, and they made all this money.
00:39:39
but you know that isn't or or could just go on and start
00:39:41
trading and make a ton of cash.
00:39:43
Those things don't really happen to those people because
00:39:47
if they did, they wouldn't be advertising it.
00:39:49
If it was easy to do, everyone will be doing it and it will be
00:39:52
rich.
00:39:53
James Church: That's it.
00:39:53
That's it.
00:39:54
The media is very selective as to you know the reality of
00:39:58
entrepreneurship and what's involved and it's great that we
00:40:02
have these great success stories that we see and inspire us, but
00:40:08
we also have to realize that, strategically, the founder that
00:40:13
went and raised 10 million off the back of a pitch deck and
00:40:16
their idea is the you know if a hand, if a tiny percentage of
00:40:21
founders are raising investment in the first place, they're a
00:40:23
tiny percentage of the that are getting those sorts of results
00:40:28
and usually it's because they know their investors from a
00:40:30
previous life.
00:40:31
They're, they're, they're one of them and they know, they knew
00:40:35
who's back to scratch.
00:40:36
But you've got to sometimes do a bit digging on those stories
00:40:39
and see what the reality is.
00:40:41
Ben Maynard: Yes, I know a few stories like that, but that's
00:40:45
the thing.
00:40:46
I think that some people have got brilliant ideas and they're
00:40:51
really fortunate to be in a situation where they've got more
00:40:53
support than the average person .
00:40:55
You could have an equally as Bryn or more brilliant idea and
00:40:58
doesn't have the financial or familial or external support
00:41:02
that the people have, so they just not less likely to make it
00:41:05
a risk.
00:41:06
James Church: I'll often say and I'd mentioned it a few times in
00:41:08
the book great ideas don't raise investment.
00:41:11
Great communication does.
00:41:13
There's lots of great ideas that never go anywhere because
00:41:16
founders can't access that capital or pitch that vision and
00:41:19
access the resources they need, whether that be financial or
00:41:22
human resources.
00:41:23
They just, you know, they're unable to pitch their vision and
00:41:26
it's not the great idea that determines success, it's the
00:41:28
founders ability to pitch that idea.
00:41:31
And then, ultimately, there's two killers to raising
00:41:34
investment.
00:41:34
The first is being able to communicate your idea in a way
00:41:38
that convinces investors that they want to back your business,
00:41:40
versus all of the hundreds of other opportunities that are
00:41:43
landing in front of them any given week.
00:41:45
And the second is a founders ability to meet potential
00:41:49
investors, actually build a network of high net worth
00:41:52
individuals and angels who would give them the capital if they
00:41:54
had a great pitch and a great business case.
00:41:58
So there's two big killers and if you can solve our goal is to
00:42:01
solve those two killers help you communicate that in a way that
00:42:04
inspires investors to want to get involved and, secondly, find
00:42:08
prospective investors to actually pitch to in the first
00:42:11
place that have the inclination and capital to invest into
00:42:15
businesses like yours, and if you can solve those two things,
00:42:19
your chances dramatically increase.
00:42:20
And that's what it comes down to.
00:42:23
Ben Maynard: James, thank you so much.
00:42:24
I tried to this quickly, as you're talking, to reflect back
00:42:27
on the conversation and trying to think what if I was going to
00:42:29
summarize it.
00:42:30
Well, I couldn't do it justice, but for me this has been the
00:42:32
conversation about pivoting, about having a strong vision for
00:42:35
what you're trying to achieve, not really caring how much of
00:42:39
that vision you can achieve with your product, the thing you're
00:42:42
getting out there, but having a vision that's so strong it pulls
00:42:45
you through and drives you to succeed.
00:42:48
And then it's a story of your ability to do that At Robert
00:42:52
mascot, you know and really create a network and a system
00:42:55
which helps people get the funding and turn them into
00:42:59
people at their kitchen table who are just running a business
00:43:03
and trying to make a success to real solid I hate the word, but
00:43:07
I can't think of any better or now, but you know bulletproof
00:43:10
entrepreneurs of a strong business plan and financial
00:43:12
projections, but a strong vision they can articulate and that's,
00:43:15
for many people, worth its weight in gold.
00:43:16
Thank you for sharing all of that with us, james.
00:43:20
For people who want to find out more, could you share with us
00:43:23
your website address and any other mechanisms?
00:43:26
James Church: Yes, you can connect to me on LinkedIn, on
00:43:29
social as far as hang out most.
00:43:30
So James Church on LinkedIn and you're I'm sure you'll find me.
00:43:33
The robot mascot website is robot mascot dot code UK.
00:43:37
From that website, you can get yourself a free copy of the of
00:43:40
my book, so you can order yourself a free copy from there.
00:43:41
There's also, if you go to pitch ready dot code UK, pitch
00:43:44
ready You'll be able to access a scorecard as well.
00:43:49
You have to assess your own ability right now to go and
00:43:52
raise capital and that will give you a tailored report on your
00:43:56
investment readiness and what you might need to work on to To
00:43:59
get more ready.
00:44:00
Ben Maynard: Yeah, there's a few different resources there that
00:44:01
you'll be able to access to continue on the journey
00:44:05
Fantastic but we'll make sure the links for those are in the
00:44:08
show notes and we'll check some of them on to our social media
00:44:11
posts as well.
00:44:12
And, of course, james will be tagging you In LinkedIn.
00:44:14
Whatever other mechanisms we use, like talk, tick tock, crazy
00:44:19
engagement, tick tock at the moment must saying before we
00:44:21
start, actually, so yeah, deflux and tick tock LinkedIn,
00:44:25
instagram, so that you can see all of the great content that we
00:44:29
have and links to the relevant things that James was speaking
00:44:33
about there.
00:44:33
James, thank you so much for coming on.
00:44:35
It's been a delight, and I say the time was just for loan by,
00:44:38
so thank you very much.
00:44:44
Maybe next year we can come on and we can talk about how some
00:44:49
success stories, perhaps maybe we can find a way to have some
00:44:52
people share, some of those people be interested in hearing
00:44:55
that and they will.
00:44:57
Thank you very much.
00:44:58
Listening will be back again next week, so please make sure
00:45:01
that you join us then.
00:45:02
Thank you very much.