Unlocking Team Synergy - Transformation Through Breathwork (With Remi Ribas Policastro)

That head of design at at this bank was truly under something and i've i've never thought of it as as a team building activity, but I would highly, highly encourage any manager out there that is truly passionate about delivering business objectives through a cohesive and collective effort. How do they effectively build that cohesion and that team? Are they just ticking a box? Are they paying a couple of margaritas? Or are they really intentional and willing to explore things that are not yet on the beaten track? Welcome to the Product Agility Podcast, The missing Link between Agile and Product. The purpose of this podcast is to share practical tips, strategies, and stories from world class thought leaders and practitioners. Why, I hear you ask. Well, I want to increase your knowledge and your motivation to experiment so that together we can create ever more successful products. My name is Ben Maynard and i'm your host. What has driven me for the last decade to bridge the gap between agility and product is a deep rooted belief that people and products evolving together can achieve mutual excellence. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Product Agility Podcast. Joining us today is Remy Rebus, Polly Castro. Hello there again. Remy pleasure. Oh yeah. Who is this? Who is this? Yeah, well, hopefully we can meet again in person one day, 'cause I do like talking to you, but it's nice to meet you in the in person, to productize again. I will be at product, I will be there. I will be there. Unless Andre has changed his mind, I will be there. So yes, come and see us prioritise everybody twenty twenty four before we get to that junction which will be October, which is just after board mental health day, which issue I think is on the tenth of October for. i'll Chuck that in there. So I just looked it up. Oh yes, there you go. That we are going to be talking about today, team building and the importance of human connection. Because Remy, you've recently had an experience with a a product design team, was it in a bank here in Portugal? i'm a huge fan of the team building, team coaching, of having teams that are really strongly aligned on their purpose and work well as an entity. it's been a long time researching and studying team coaching, so it's a topic which is really close to my heart. And I don't think on the podcast we've really spoken enough about how we can make effective teams or how we can help teams become more effective. So i'm really fascinated. To hear about your story here, Remy, so that let's start things off by saying when they approached you, what was their problem statement or what was the opportunity that they saw? Well, it actually happened very organically. So one of the things that i've done for many years now is to practice daily or so breathing practices on my own. I started before COVID and I carried on until now. it's very effective. We can touch on that a little later. And I started guiding these breathing sessions on Saturdays in Lisbon for group and i've found this incredibly rewarding. it's a side hustle. Look, I don't have kids so I need to entertain myself. I have too much free time, so i'm guiding these breathing practices. it's with music. it's a bit of a party, let's say one of the person who who comes regularly to to these called me a DJ who likes to sleep early because it's at eleven AM on a Saturday and I like my tunes. I make it vibrant and people engage and they regulate their nervous system through breathing patterns during about an hour or an hour and a half and it's it's wonderful people you, I really feel like having. Fact. Anyway, Long story short, so i'm doing that for the last year and a half now in Lisbon on saturday 's morning and. I happened to come across product people at different events, techs and so on, and they came to know about this Saturday thing. And so little by little product people start to come. And one of them was and is the head of design at Cofidis. This is a bank in Portugal, a financial services company in Portugal. And she came as a in Incognito, so to speak. And she loved it so much that she was like, Remy, we need to talk. i'm looking for something special to break the routine and bring my team together this year, just before the year planning and the whole shebang. And she initiated the idea of having this session done private for her team. And this is what happened last week and it was truly spectacular. I was very touched to see. Obviously they were very nervous at the beginning because it was not necessarily completely transparent. There was a bit of mystery around the experience. Intentional mystery or intentional mystery, yes, about surprising people. And so there was a bit of nervosity and and not knowing what was happening and we've been through the exercise. They were very intentional about experiencing it. it's just release. it's it's no sadness. it's just an emotional release. that's what it is. One of the song was reminding one of the team member about a personal event that he shared with the rest of the group. And you know what? Team building, that's it. It's about creating connection, connection, that that entering that level of vulnerability. This This is where you can really forge trust, which is the first brick, most fundamental brick for building a team, a functional team. That's the Patrick Lencioni. Yeah. Five dysfunction of a team. Yeah, exactly. Start with trust. Without it, you have nothing. And trust is built on vulnerability. Knowing that the person next to you will not hide anything, will own everything and will not pretend so that you can do the same. So what would you say then with the biggest positive outcome for this team as a consequence of doing this little journey with you? On individual level, there is a another answer, but at a group level it would be going through a profound experience together. And this is what we go to games because there is this magic thing about when we go to an A highly emotional experience together, it bounces and that bounding is very precious and it's hard to emulate like how do we build a team? For many years it was just like something we'd take the box and once a quarter we put some drinks on the company 's credit card and once a year we go go karting or taking a surf lesson in Lisbon, which is great, but can we do better than this? And I think we can breathing exercises, having that same going through the same motion, with the same hearing, the same tunes vibrating the same way all together. This is what happens at a concert. it's basically going to a concert together, but the breathing being synchronized, we all breathe the same air we all have. I don't know, is it to woo Hoo to say we become one being, so to speak for some people maybe. But a team is an entity. A team is a. If there are seven people in in a team, there's eight entities in the room because there is a thing which is all between them. that's all. I don't think it's too far. So how do we breakdown that barrier? This is the Ubuntu stuff, I am because we are right? and and breathwork breathwork is is is is is a a a very powerful tool to bring that not just words on paper and like having that nice poster on the wall of the office with five hands with different skin colour and the big word saying teamwork on top, right. Yeah. Breathwork is a tool that makes these type of images this type of ideal a reality. paint paint us us a bit a bit more more of of a a picture because I'm some some some people listen to this and saying, like, wow, it all sounds a little bit ethereal, a little bit hippy, a little bit phrasing what say say say the the the UK, UK, UK, a a a little ittle bit, woo, woo. That. hat. how does this, like, really help? Sure, we understand that it's important that, yeah, if we show that vulnerability, if we can build some trust around some of those kind of memorable experiences, then that's going to help us communicate with a caveat bin as long as we've got a good performance ethic kind of overlaying that we know we need to achieve. But how on earth does a breathing, a pattern of breathing, help us to accomplish this? So there is a lot we know and there is quite a bit we don't know. What we know is that when we do this intentional deep breathing for an extended period of time. We do a few things on a physiological level. First, we excite our nervous system. We exhale a lot of CO two much more than usual. So we unbalance the CO two O two in our in our blood, making our blood alkaline essentially, which in returns excites our nervous system. And that level of excitation means that we going to tap into such a heightened state of such a high excitement that before we're able able to shift it makes me think of a brilliant episode you had on stress management that maybe your listeners can listen to. But the idea is to shift between your sympathetic nervous system and your parasympathetic nervous system. So when we do this breathing exercise, we excite the nervous system to such a level, to such a height of excitement. Then effectively after that it's able to shift into our parasympathetic one and the release that we get from that shift a deep meditative state. And now what happens is that empathy, compassion, these are emotions or feelings that we're able to experience. When we stress, we tend to isolate, We are short sighted, we cannot relate to people problems, people pains, people difficulties, etcetera. Now when we tap into that parasympathetic state and we are calm and we are rested and resting, we are actually able to relate to other people much more. And this is the best moment to build a team. we're able to listen to each other, wait for people to finish their sentence, reflect on it, pause before we jump into the next one, and so on and so forth. And breathwork just does just that. We first excite ourselves to a very high level. This is why we do it in a control settings guided and because the the physical sensations that are occurring can be it can be quite unsettling. it's it's it's pretty impressive to imagine that breath only can generate that level of reaction in the body. So it's guided. it's done in control settings and then from that level of excitement that we don't react to. We just let it happen. Then we can rest. And through sharpening and and making that shift between sympathetic to parasympathetic one, we enter a place of openness and this is the best way to be vulnerable to share, being open, being part of something. So it's really the the perfect place to build a team. Really. you're gonna have to pay them more of a picture for me here what you say like excite and we're using improving techniques to kind of ourselves raise. I don't know to I think as you mentioned before it's a previous episode we spoke about stress management and saying how just walking events sprinting can help to kind of create that level of excitement. And what we're saying, it's almost like a release up and up. Unless we can kind of take it to a point where we kind of go over the tipping point, then we end up in this state where actually things are really uncomfortable for us and we need to almost just elevate ourselves up and over. So we go down and we can then relax a bit more. Our bodies are then more in tuned and actually able to relax. So when you're doing these breathing techniques, is it visualization as well, you telling people to pitch the stuff or is it just breathing and music? So it's just breathing and music. Now, at the beginning of the exercise, I tell people if they feel comfortable, picture something. i'm not asking them what, i'm not telling them what, but picture a place, someone, a thing, whatever, that makes them feel empowered, that makes them feel whole. And what i'm telling them is that when it does get challenging, because it does, it's it's not an easy practice. it's it's it's not a picnic. But best things in life are no picnics. And so when resistance do come up, especially the first times we do breathing exercises, there are a significant resistance coming up. Mental resistance, Every time we do something uncomfortable. A cold shower is a good example that anybody can relate to. The the resistance to it are crazy. Like, we know we're not going to die from this, but the mind goes nuts. As in like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. i'm not doing this. And the purpose of that exercise is that while the mind is going, no, no, no, I can do that. let's focus on the breathing. let's keep going. We go slow and steady, but one step at a time we go. And So what I tell them too is that they can visualize whatever they want and focus that. Each breath they are making that visualization one step closer. They are walking toward that visualization one breath at a time. it's a main trick. It works pretty well. i'm going to take an example for my dog. I adopted her two months ago and she was found on the street and so she had no training whatsoever and she was really afraid of stairs and taking her on stairs walking up. Her legs were shaking and it was a no go. So what I did is I took her in my arm. I walked the next time I did it. I put a hand under her belly, a hand at her bottom and I walked. I kind of made her levitate on top of the stairs and going step by step this type of adjustments. Now she's walking stairs like there is no tomorrow and we we have the power to do the same thing I did with my dog with ourselves. And so with this small visualization, i'm not a big fan of visualization. I think it's it's as much as we can we need to stay in reality but if we can use a bit of visualization to to get there at the beginning, fine let's do it. So I think I i've took a few side side. Yeah no well no it's interesting. it's interesting. i'm wondering what if people listen to this and they're wondering, well, OK this sounds interesting. What can they do practically to give some of this a go, either thing for themselves or in a kind of team environment? Is there anything that you can suggest they look up or if you can give people, yeah, so we can put that in the show notes for those in Lisbon, they can come any Saturday if they want to experience it for themselves. For those not in Lisbon, they need to come to productize or or spend a weekend. Lisbon is a lot more than than breathing. But I I think that that Lady, I don't know if I can give a name, but that head of design at this bank was truly under something and i've i've never thought of it as as a team building activity. But I would highly, highly encourage any manager out there that is truly passionate about delivering business objectives. Through a cohesive and collective effort, how do they effectively build that cohesion and that team? Are they just ticking a box? Are they paying a couple of margaritas or are they really intentional and willing to explore things that are not yet on the beaten track? But I think there is a shift that is happening, especially in tech, especially with product, people, products. These positions didn't exist ten years ago, very marginally so. All the product people did something else before, unless they are twenty five and this is their first job and having done something before, it means that they reinvented themselves to some degree in some fashion. And so they they they are, they have a broader perspective on things than most people that has been in the same tunnel for the entire career. And that I think it's an incredible opportunity to use that broader perspective to go even broader and explore other things that potentially were just the hobbies or were the things that we considered a private sphere bring it to a team building activity or building to team conversations. I don't see how this can go wrong, to be honest. Have being more vulnerable, being more open, being more human, simple. that's it. I think the world that you should look into is the professional team coaching world, because these types of things are, they're not commonplace, but. I think in the professional team coaching board you've got a lot more leverage to do these types of experiments and to great effect when it's in that broader team coaching frame. I think it can really be in these types of techniques, these approaches, things that are different can land really well. What if i'm really fascinating is that when you have a professional team coaching engagement, unlike let's say an agile team coach or maybe even a product team coach where often they are pushed on to a team rather than the team saying do you know what our performance Yeah, we think it could get better. I think there's some stuff we can deal with. let's pull someone in, which is often how professional team coaching comes about. A leadership will say let's bring someone in and they will go on a journey and the moment they they decide the team aren't ready for it, they'll walk away. Not ethical to push their desires on the team or to think they can fix them when they don't even need fixing you. You would generally walk away from that, but in other worlds products and agile as an example, I that isn't often the case, right? The coaches that engage at a team level are doing it because they've been told to do it or they've been pushed on the team and I don't think then. The teams are as willing to go on somebody 's slightly more what's the word i'm looking for not avant garde but slightly non generic style of activities because I don't think they have that desire and introspection just present in that moment. So yeah, right. We want this to improve let's give this a go. That was a bit rambly but was I making a point. But I think that you in the freshman team fiction world I think you would this type of thing would land really well. Yeah. No, no, you're right. And and all it comes down to is growth. to I'm find yet to one find person one person that that is is not looking for growing. Yeah, the will growth comes from support and challenge, I always think, can't can't can't can't can't can't remember remember remember remember remember I where where where from, I I I I that I from, from, that you from, from, you you you you know, and I think we need that. We need to put ourselves on the edge of our comfort zone or push ourselves to some edge but then feel that we got the support to then mean that we're not comfortable there. But that's where the real growth happens, that's where we're challenging ourselves. That's it, itinding finding comfort discomfort. Yeah we have to I think and I think in teamwork it's even it's even more essential. You know, when I was rebranding the podcast, nearly nearly nearly ended ended ended up up up being being being called called called a a product something That product? like. coaching coaching coaching coaching coaching or agile or something. or or Agile. or Agile. Agile. Agile. But I was gonna have the word coaching in there, because I really wanted to find a way to bring the ethos and some of the ideas from professional team coaching into the worlds of Products and Agile, which they called products Agility. But it came out because it didn't roll up for tongue so much. And now i'm wondering actually, you know, was that something we should have done? Because we're going to have some awesome professional team coaches coming on at some point later this year to talk about their, about about their trade. And i'm wondering, yeah, do we get, do we get you back to talk to them as well? Because there's a huge amount of really valuable stuff and I think it would fit really well to what you're doing. It do. It does. i'm a big fan of Phil jackson 's work. Any managers, I highly encourage them if they are slightly open to team sports. Phil Jackson, the NBA coach, eleven time world champion. His work he's he's big into meditation by the way this is something we didn't touch into his work on on T building and this spiritual side of it is is fascinating. And you I think you said that in the intro. This is a kind of a phrase that I have in mind every time I things are not going this the way I want them to or that i'm not where I want to. If I want what I haven't had before, I need to be ready to do things that I haven't done. And it's that simple. And team building is no exception. If we want to reach that state, that cohesion, that fusion of the team, that we need to explore all the stuff, But how many people will do that? I wonder, Amy, I hope more and more as time goes on. I think the world needs to turn on a little bit to what a team really is. I don't think many people, i'm sure a lot of our listeners will also think of their managers or leaders in an organization and think, well, do you know what? They talk a good game about teams and yet they do very little to actually invest and grow the teams. And if you are one of those leaders and managers and you can't really put a pin on what exactly a team is, then I would suggest giving Remy a shout or myself. And we can help you out with that because it's a huge amount of productivity that can be gained one through. And if I think back to our previous episode, Remy Stress Management, using that as our rocket fuel to kind of really fuel our productivity. At the same time doing that in a team environment and having our whole team work as an entity and use that collective stress and be able to manage that as a whole to drive us forward. I mean there's a huge amount of potential there which is just left latent in organisations. And now you, you've hit it on a nail, if I, if I can, just very briefly, well being as much as team. building because i think team building is just an extension of well being if The people in the team are well taken care of it's just a functional team that's it so it's it's all mismatched together but it's not a fun thing or a nice to have or a nice poster on the office it's really a business opportunity. they're incredible savings to be made by retaining the right talent and also innovating productivity wise. And when time will be rough because it's it will happen eventually for any company. They will go through their revenue targets or whatever and when time will be rough, having a strong team will be the difference between going South real bad and just bringing on the sale, the putting out the storm jib and keep Keep cruising. Yeah, cruising. that's it. It reminds me of a quote but i'm not gonna be able to remember now. But there's something along the lines of, or maybe I can budget together, we can go much further as a weave than you ever can do as an eye is the sentiment of it. Member together, who knows what we can achieve. Remy thank you so much for enlightening me and getting my kind of team juices flowing. Once again, my team coaching ideas flourishing. it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast when people want to find out more about you. LinkedIn, we said before, was a nice place where they could find you at, so i'm assuming that hasn't changed in the last half an hour or so. it's a. Is there any other closing thought you'd like to share of our listeners before we wrap up this episode? Yeah, reach out. This is a topic that is fascinating to me and only good things can come out interesting conversations. So reach out. Thank you so much, Ben, for for having me. It was such a pleasant conversation. Impromptu, we we decided the topic not to sell to give any secrets, but we we decided the topic literally a few minutes before the the, the episode. And i'm i'm humbled. Such a great talk and thank you. Well, Remy, a lot to chew on. it's lovely talking to you. And we're going to meet up again in person in October twenty twenty four productized, I believe. we'll see you there and we'll we can hang out and we can carry on some of these conversations. We hope to see some of you lovely listeners there as well. I think the productized new website for dates etcetera. So for new website, old website, new pages, I think it's up with the dates. I think some of the speakers are being announced. So yeah, not plugging my podcast and giving you a call to action for the podcast today. Oh no, i'm saying go to the productized website. we'll put the Rep, put the URL into the show notes, buy a ticket, come along, get to meet Remy in person and ask them some difficult questions about breathing techniques, and maybe you can teach you one or two. Come. Come to on the Saturday morning of of of productize. I think it ends on a on a Friday. I think so. Then come come extend your stay in Lisbon and come to one of my breathwork. You won't be sorry. And if you are, it's free. I refund you. Yeah, no refunds if it doesn't If it doesn't push your buttons. This is I refund your your ticket. that's it. Look at that, what i'll offer. i'm so certain of it. You can read the reviews i'm i'm not even cheeky. it's yeah it's a no brainer. Brilliant. OK Thank Given for listening and thank you Remy. See you soon. Bye, bye, bye.